Cont: Global warming discussion V

[dann]

His link is, to quote himself, one of his usual "idiotic and incorrect knee-jerk reactions."
As if I were questioning the number of international visitors or what they come to see.
Since he seems to have immense problems with comprehension, I'll spell it out.
This is what it would be nice to see the receipt for:
"None of them want turbines in the shot."

 

[wobs]

I support alternative power 100%, but suggesting that wind turbines are anything but an equal blight to the eyes as lines of overhead power cables is simply perverse.

New Zealand draws millions of tourists a year who want to take photos of our natural beauty. None of them want turbines in the shot - they are as ugly as sin itself.

If you want more wind turbines, you'll get far more pylons.

Edit: There are people who love pylons, and people who love wind turbines...... You'll probably come with a good reply to this bit.

 

[The Atheist]

That's not the appropriate comparison, though, is it? Are they an equal blight to the eyes as coal, gas, oil or nuclear power stations?

Strangely enough, in terms of aesthetics, modern coal stations are less unattractive than wind turbines.

 

[dann]

Denmark has actually turned wind power into a tourist attraction. Fact!
I don't have to make up stories about every single tourist to the country demanding to see wind turbines.

Wind Turbine Safari (VisitCopenhagen.dk)
In the middle of the Øresund, an experience awaits that blends the calm of the sea with Denmark’s green future. Here, you can encounter wind turbines that stand as symbols of sustainable energy and remarkable innovation.
Wind Turbine Safari is a brand-new way to experience Copenhagen – a boat tour that brings you up close to the iconic offshore turbines at Middelgrunden and offers a rare insight into the community-driven energy that powers them.

Our Wind (VisitDenmark.nl)
Our Wind is an exciting and different exhibition in Hvide Sande, which provides insight into the history and events surrounding the establishment of offshore wind farms in the area. In addition, the exhibition also deals with the general significance of wind for the whole of West Jutland and for the West Coast in particular.

I would have thought the Dutch had enough windmills.

Wind Turbine Park near Ebeltoft (VisitDenmark.se)
The wind turbine park south of Ebeltoft was one of the first of its kind in Denmark and remains a symbolic landmark of the early days of Danish wind energy.

Windmills in Copenhagen (YouTube, Sep 2, 2021 – 1 min.)


And then there are the other benefits from wind turbines:
Facts about Denmark: More than 40% of Danish energy consumption comes from wind energy (YouTube, Mar 26, 2023 – 20 sec.)

Windpower in Denmark (Wikipedia)
In 2024, wind power made up 59.3% of total electricity generation in Denmark, up from 56% in 2020, 20% in 2010 and 11% in 2000

Unlocking Denmark's Economic Secrets Wind, Trade, & Happiness! (YouTube, Oct 26, 2024 – 1 min.)

How Denmark’s wind and solar investments shield it from global energy turmoil (PBS, May 21, 2026 – 9 min.)
The European Union’s climate commissioner has told the 27-country bloc that the only way out of energy crises fueled by the wars in Iran and Ukraine is homegrown energy, and that the EU must accelerate its transition away from fossil fuels. One country leading the charge towards green energy is Denmark.

The small island Ærø shown is the PBS video is overrun by tourists every summer. I am one of them. I have friends who moved to the island a couple of years ago. There are no bridges to the nearest major island, Fyn, so I have sailed with the electric ferry a couple of times – with my motorcycle. Many Germans have moved to the island and now live there permanently – whether because of or in spite of the wind turbines.
The PBS video also mentions this interesting fact:

Car owners are among the worst affected by spiraling fuel prices caused by the Iran conflict. Danish drivers' displeasure surfaced in last month's sales figures. Electric vehicles accounted for 96.3% of all new car purchases.

 

[dann]

Nigel Farage to join populist and rightwing figures at 'anti-woke Davos' in London (TheGuardian, June 18, 2026)
Event co-founded by Jordan Peterson will bring together rightwing figures, US state officials and anti-abortionists in London
Christian evangelical political thinking is one of the strongest guiding themes of the conference alongside hostility to net zero and climate scepticism.

Populist and rightwing figures take aim at Ed Miliband and UK net zero policies at 'anti-woke Davos' (TheGuardian, June 23, 2026)
Kemi Badenoch, who joined US anti-abortion activists and European far-right parties at ARC, described energy secretary as a 'villain'While ARC is also heavily backed by the owners of GB News – hedge fund manager Paul Marshall and the Dubai-based investment group Legatum – a list of donors for this year’s conference shows that it has received financial backing from powerful US donors with close ties to the Trump administration.

Trump’s Energy Secretary Says ‘Cold Is Larger Killer’ During Record European Heatwave (DeSmog, June 23, 2026)
Chris Wright, a former oil and gas executive, urged the UK to embrace fossil fuels at right-wing Alliance for Responsible Citizenship conference in London.

A Danish right-wing politician is also there:
Alex Vanopslagh spottet til 'anti-woke Davos' i London med højreorienterede profiler som Nigel Farage (BT, June 24, 2026)

And so is the infamous Danish 'climate expert' Bjørn Lomborg (Wikipedia)

Several of Lomborg's articles, in newspapers such as The Wall Street Journal and The Daily Telegraph, have been checked by Climate Feedback, a worldwide network of scientists who assess the credibility of influential climate change media coverage. The Climate Feedback reviewers assessed that the scientific credibility of the articles ranged between "low" and "very low". The Climate Feedback reviewers came to the conclusion that in one case, Lomborg "practices cherry picking"; in a second case, he "had reached his conclusions through cherry-picking from a small subset of the evidence, misrepresenting the results of existing studies, and relying on flawed reasoning"; in a third case, "[his] article [is in] blatant disagreement with available scientific evidence, while the author does not offer adequate evidence to support his statements"; and in a fourth case, "The author, Bjorn Lomborg, cherry-picks this specific piece of research and uses it in support of a broad argument against the value of climate policy. He also misrepresents the Paris Agreement to downplay its potential to curb future climate change."

 

[The Atheist]

Denmark has actually turned wind power into a tourist attraction. Fact!

Other than the Lego factory and a miniature mermaid, people have no other reason to visit the place..

Trying to suggest people take 20-hour flights to NZ to see wind turbines is the most insane thing you've ever posted. and it was a very high bar so well played!

 

[The Atheist]

Meanwhile, in the real world, El Nino just keeps on strengthening.

Never mind the heatwave now, wait until next summer!

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/nasa-satellite-captures-wave-of-warm-water-hundreds-of-miles-long-that-signals-a-devastatingly-strong-el-nino

 

[dann]

Other than the Lego factory and a miniature mermaid, people have no other reason to visit the place..
Trying to suggest people take 20-hour flights to NZ to see wind turbines is the most insane thing you've ever posted. and it was a very high bar so well played!

The Atheist was never good at thinking before posting.
If he were, he would have noticed that I never claimed any such thing, but it makes sense that the most insane thing I ever posted was entirely made up by The Atheist.
He, on the other hand, claimed that ...

... New Zealand draws millions of tourists a year who want to take photos of our natural beauty. None of them want turbines in the shot ...

Something that was also pulled out of his ass and not corroborated by information about the number of tourists going to NZ.
But I guess the only thing that makes people want to visit New Zealand is the hope of catching a glimpse of Frodo and his companions on The Hill in Hobbiton, so NZ's tourist industry would never recover from a wind turbine in the background. For some reason, NZ doesn't have any locations tourists don't go to.

 

[The Atheist]

Bluster all you want, it's blindingly obvious people do not come here to take photos of windmills.

Your defensiveness is a dead giveaway.

 

[dann]

It's blindingly obvious that nobody ever claimed that people visit NZ to take photos of windmills.
In fact, it is as blindingly obvious as The Atheist's blustering attempts to save face whenever his false claims are pointed out, e.g. this one:

... New Zealand draws millions of tourists a year who want to take photos of our natural beauty. None of them want turbines in the shot ...

 

[dann]

(and everywhere else)
Two (of seven) posts from a Bluesky thread:

Keith Stewart on bsky, June 25, 2026
If you’ve been following the Canadian ‘new oil sands pipeline in exchange for carbon capture’ Grand Bargain drama, this chart from a new @propublica.org report on how the fossil fuel industry turned the plan to solve climate change into a plan to save itself is a powerful reality check

Keith Stewart on bsky, June 25, 2026
TLDR: solar energy has over-delivered while CCS has never left starting gate. That’s no accident. As the ProPublic report (part of a series) makes clear: the point is to be able to pollute now by promising to clean up later (and then not doing it)
bsky.app/profile/prop...

CCS = Carbon Capture & Storage

ProPublica on bsky, June 25, 2026
Leaders around the world are banking on tech advances to solve climate change.One leading idea involves capturing carbon pollution from the air and then burying it underground forever.It sounds practical.
Here’s why there's no conceivable way it can work:(THREAD)

All talk about carbon capture as a solution to CO₂ emissions is nothing but Big Oil greenwashing.

 

[novaphile]

I have met people who have claimed that the sight of wind turbines makes them want to blind themselves.

I would struggle to imagine a better example of people who become emotionally welded to ideology.

Whenever I've seen them, I've felt an enormous sensation of pride, that I'm a member of a society that is that clever.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Terrestrial wind turbines are a transition power source.

 

[The Atheist]

Whenever I've seen them, I've felt an enormous sensation of pride, that I'm a member of a society that is that clever.

Srsly?

We've used wind power for centuries.

I can't wait until someone tells you about solar power.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

We've used wind power for centuries.

Millennia. It's only within the past two centuries that ocean-going ships have transitioned to power sources other than wind.

 

[dann]

Srsly?

It is pathetic that The Atheist feels the need to delete novaphile's text.
'But what about the tourists? Won't somebody think of the NZ tourists?!'

And then there's the attempt to make novaphile look like the one who's naive and ignorant:

We've used wind power for centuries.
I can't wait until someone tells you about solar power.

As if there wouldn't be a similar reason for being proud of being "a member of a society that is that clever" considering what windmills looked like and could be used for a couple of centuries (or a couple of millennia) ago in comparison to what they look like and can be used for today.
Wind explained – History of wind power (U.S. Energy Information Administation)
(In case you're wondering why this article doesn't mention how wind turbines allegedly cause cancer and kill birds:
"Last updated: April 20, 2023, with data available at the time of update.")

 

[dann]

The "CCS = Carbon Capture & Storage" lie

(and everywhere else)
All talk about carbon capture as a solution to CO₂ emissions is nothing but Big Oil greenwashing.

Beyond Denial – How Oil Execs Shaped a Landmark Climate Study (ProPublica, June 25, 2026)
Reporting Highlights

• Conflicted Funds: BP sponsored an elite Princeton research center to address the climate problem without getting off fossil fuels, handpicking scientists aligned with their interests.
• A Paradigm-Setting Paper: Princeton scientists who wrote a climate paper criticized as making solutions seem “easy” coordinated with the oil company’s executives and showed them multiple drafts.
• Oversold Solutions: Researchers depicted technology to capture carbon and store it underground as being proven and in use at industrial scale, a characterization that stretched the facts.

"IT IS RARE that a single scientific paper shapes how people think about a challenge as daunting as climate change. But one, known as “Wedges,” published 22 years ago by researchers at Princeton University, told an irresistible story.
It made solving climate change seem possible, even simple. It claimed that the world didn’t have to wait for innovation because it had the tools to start work immediately."

'We' did actually have "the tools to start work immediately." When it didn't happen, it wasn't because 'we' lacked the tools or the knowledge.

See also post 2,211.

 

[dann]

History of wind power (Wikipedia)
Tvindkraft, the world's first multi-megawatt wind turbine was built near Tvind in Denmark (Wikipedia)

Built in 1978, it's still running and still generating electricity for the Danish grid:
Vindkraftværket Tvindkraft (Danish Wikipedia)

World famous TVIND WIND TURBINE the oldest modern WTG in the world, Denmark (YouTube, Mar 15, 2020)

These 6 Wind Turbines Are The Future Of Home Power (Wild Line on YouTube, May 30, 2026 – 23 min.)
This video makes a compelling case for integrating wind power into residential off-grid systems, positioning it not as a replacement for solar, but as a dense, reliable partner that thrives during dark winter months and nighttime hours when solar panels are blind. Shifting focus away from massive utility-scale turbines, the video showcases six innovative, small-scale wind technologies designed to overcome traditional residential hurdles like strict zoning laws, turbulent suburban air currents, and extreme weather vulnerability. Ranging from the silent, urban-friendly geometry of the vertical-axis Tesup Atlas and Flower Turbines to the rugged, low-maintenance mechanical engineering of the SD Wind Energy SD6 and IceWind, each system is evaluated by cost, efficiency, and engineering breakthroughs. Ultimately, the video emphasizes that by utilizing modern human-scale engineering and properly measuring local wind data, self-generators can dramatically reduce their reliance on expensive battery banks and achieve true, year-round energy independence.
1:13 - Tesup Atlas
4:32 - Wind Energy SD6
7:51 - Liam F1
10:18 - Flower Turbine
13:41 - Primus Wind Power
16:35 - IceWind

 

[dann]

The "CCS = Carbon Capture & Storage" lie

False Promises: Why carbon capture and storage won’t fix our climate crisis. (ProPublica, June 25, 2026)
In 2008, the International Energy Agency projected that to stave off dangerous levels of warming, we would have to be burying around 1.6 billion tons, or 1,600 megatons, of CO2 per year by 2025.
Since then, its optimistic projections have continued.
But deployment of the technology has never come close to those ambitions.
Right now, globally, we’re permanently burying less CO2 than a single large power plant can emit in a year.

This is more or less the conclusion of the ProPublica article:

To a lot of people, Hoffert said, “Wedges” served a purpose. “You have to give people hope” that climate change could be solved without radically disrupting society, he said in a recent interview. “Yet in the end,” he added, if that hope is gained by convincing people they can continue without getting rid of fossil fuels, “you’re gonna be driving the car over a cliff.”
The fact is, he added, BP “got their money’s worth.”

 

[dann]

:

Met Office on X, June 26, 2026
The heatwave continues to break records, with a new provisional hottest June day on record of 36.9°C at Wattisham, Suffolk.
And temperatures are still rising.

The replies are typical of X nowadays: Full of global-warming deniers. Bluesky is so much better in this respect.

:
Record heat in several European countries today: Benelux, Germany, Ireland, Switzerland.
And it's expected to get hotter tomorrow.