Global warming discussion III

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So what did they say when you put the allegations to them?

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/

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I clicked on their names, just goes to http://www.berkeleyearth.org/

No contact info.

Clicked that contact link

http://berkeleyearth.org/contact

Mailing list, for them to contact, no way to contact them.

Called the office (510) 926-6446

Automated answering computer, not working.

No contact on realclimate of any kind.

How do you suggest I get hold of them?
 
Thank you, my bad. You are correct.
Again, if it's so obvious, why are laymen spotting it but not experts ?
Why indeed? Somebody posts a mistake for the CO2 numbers, twice, and none of the experts here even notice.

I knew it was wrong as soon as I read it. I also knew it was a simple mistake, using carbon instead of CO2 for the figures. But nobody else noticed.

Most of all the person who made the mistake.

Why is that?
 
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

I clicked on their names, just goes to http://www.berkeleyearth.org/

No contact info.

Clicked that contact link

http://berkeleyearth.org/contact

Mailing list, for them to contact, no way to contact them.

Called the office (510) 926-6446

Automated answering computer, not working.

No contact on realclimate of any kind.

How do you suggest I get hold of them?

So you haven't done the decent thing and found a way of contacting them before you accused them of fraud. You are the clever one R-j. You can find a fraud that no one else has notice. but you can't find a way to contact named scientists whose place of employment is known? You have slandered them without even checking for an explanation first. That is despicable. You went through all this charade because you wouldn't admit you had nothing to back up your claim that scientists were illicitly tampering with data. You are beneath contempt.

ETA found this within a minute. [email protected]

ETA2 a matter of seconds then to find this steve at symbol berkeleyearth.org. We are grateful for substantive feedback on our work.
 
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http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

I clicked on their names, just goes to http://www.berkeleyearth.org/

No contact info.

Clicked that contact link

http://berkeleyearth.org/contact

Mailing list, for them to contact, no way to contact them.

Called the office (510) 926-6446

Automated answering computer, not working.

No contact on realclimate of any kind.

How do you suggest I get hold of them?

took me like 5 minutes. and that includes waiting 4 minutes for his answer.

[email protected]

here you go.
 
took me like 5 minutes. and that includes waiting 4 minutes for his answer.

[email protected]

here you go.

I just found a different contact email for Zeke Hausfather within a few seconds of putting " contact Zeke Hausfather" in google. It's kind of him to make it so easy for anyone to contact him. Would be nice if others returned the favour by contacting him before they post allegations about him on the internet.
 
I just found a different contact email for Zeke Hausfather within a few seconds of putting " contact Zeke Hausfather" in google. It's kind of him to make it so easy for anyone to contact him. Would be nice if others returned the favour by contacting him before they post allegations about him on the internet.

i got the yale one, and he answered it but gave his actual email adress.

i gave him a link to this thread :)
 
i got the yale one, and he answered it but gave his actual email adress.

i gave him a link to this thread :)

:D

Possibly got better things to do than engage internet ****** on a forum but lets wait and see.
 

That's all you have to say. I've been asking you for a week what their reply was because you would obviously ask them first before making allegations that are very serious to a professional scientist. Then you try to tell us, after post after post telling us how clever you are that you couldn't figure out how to contact them, so slandered them anyway. R-j the brilliant exposer of conspiracies couldn't even find out how to contact scientists who freely put their contact details on the internet. All this because you wouldn't say "I was wrong". Pathetic.
 
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Why indeed? Somebody posts a mistake for the CO2 numbers, twice, and none of the experts here even notice.

I knew it was wrong as soon as I read it. I also knew it was a simple mistake, using carbon instead of CO2 for the figures. But nobody else noticed.

Most of all the person who made the mistake.

Why is that?

That is the question I've been asking of you for days, now. Are you ever going to answer it ? Why, in your opinion, does a layman like you finds the conclusion from the data painfully and insultingly obvious, but the vast majority of experts on the topic disagree. What is more likely, according to you ?

1) Climate scientists are stupid
2) Climate scientists are just honestly wrong
3) Climate scientists are paid or otherwise corrupted to lie about global warming.
4) The layman is wrong

Feel free to add possibilities, but please pick one.
 
Thank you, my bad. You are correct.
Again, if it's so obvious, why are laymen spotting it but not experts ?
Why indeed? Somebody posts a mistake for the CO2 numbers, twice, and none of the experts here even notice.

I knew it was wrong as soon as I read it. I also knew it was a simple mistake, using carbon instead of CO2 for the figures. But nobody else noticed.

Most of all the person who made the mistake.

Why is that?

Why does the skeptic here talk about the theory, but the deniers insist there is no such thing?

Why does the skeptic look at the actual data, and easily discover the claims of "a slew of 113 days" is a fabrication?

Or that there is no blacktop roof?

Why is it so easy to debunk the experts claims? Why hasn't anyone else pointed the simple facts out before?

Why do people in this topic keep making things up? Do you think I won't check? And expose your fraud?

What sort of mind thinks that fibbing about what I wrote, which is all still there, is going to advance science in any way?

Why does that even seem like a good idea to the "experts" here?
 
Any answer to my question r-j. Now we have shown you how easy it is to contact the scientists you have constructed a conspiracy theory around have you contacted them to give them a chance to answer your accusations?
 
Why does the skeptic here talk about the theory, but the deniers insist there is no such thing?

You're the one denying the science here, r-j.

Why does that even seem like a good idea to the "experts" here?

No one here is talking about this thread's posters as "experts". We're all laymen.

Are you ever going to answer my question ? Why, in your opinion, does a layman like you finds the conclusion from the data painfully and insultingly obvious, but the vast majority of experts on the topic disagree. What is more likely, according to you ?

1) Climate scientists are stupid
2) Climate scientists are just honestly wrong
3) Climate scientists are paid or otherwise corrupted to lie about global warming.
4) The layman is wrong

Feel free to add possibilities, but please pick one.
 
Why is that those who keep claiming something happened, never actually quote the source here? Everything I ever typed out is still there. What I wrote was " If they can't prove it, then they are indeed liars.", as well as calling them Yahoos. (which Yahoo.com probably wouldn't consider an insult of course)

This is the problem when people make things up, and don't provide any evidence, like we see from Zeke Hausfather and Robert Rohde on realclimate.

Spouting nonsense about 113 degree readings is unscientific in the extreme. It is also insulting to all the people who worked to keep accurate records of temperatures and the past.

Their claim is ridiculous, and of course they offer no evidence. Because they have none.

I don't need you to check the records, I already did. There claim is flat out false.

It's insulting to the weather service as well. What you have to prove, or they do rather, is that there was ever any 113 degree readings reported as the daily high.

They claim it happened a lot.

That the thermometer was on a hot roof, and nobody was smart enough to recognize that they were getting temperature readings far higher than any other station, in the entire country.

This is the NWS forecast office they are talking about. It's insulting.

Let me make this perfectly clear, these yahoos here are making a multitude of claims, with no evidence. False. The records from Chicago never show any days that hot, much less "a slew of days ". If they can't prove it, then they are indeed liars.

If the excuse is "they deleted the data", or they changed the readings, then where is this claim of a "slew" of 113 degree temperatures coming from?

It seems the Berkley "scientists" didn't know that when a station "moves" in Chicago, it means the official readings are then used from the new station, not that they actually move the equipment.

When? Are you talking about the claim that the NWS was reporting 113 degree temps in Chicago? That they couldn't seem to understand that their rooftop thermometer had, according to realclimate, shown "a slew of times" temperatures higher than anywhere in the country, except maybe death valley?.

I used the official records from the NWS Chicago. The skeptic would ask those who made the woo woo claim what their source was. Since they made a claim that is so far outside anything close to reality, a skeptic would question the people making the claim.

Since there is only one place to get the official data in question, the real issue would be what data are the Yahoos using when they make that woo woo claim? And how could they be so completely wrong?

It's even more obvious when you know a little Chicago history. The Yahoos claim the data from the University in the 30's and early 40's was artificially hotter, and that the move to O'Hare caused a cooling bias.

The factual story is the reverse, something they would have known if they actually researched Chicago weather history. It's part of what makes it seem so fraudulent.

The factual story is the reverse, something they would have known if they actually researched Chicago weather history. It's part of what makes it seem so fraudulent."

So rather than follow the Gish Gallop, I stick with facts. Like the clear and certain fact that the move from the University to Midway caused the temperature readings to go up, not down. It's why I know their claim is bogus.

The facts do not support them in any way.

So rather than make something up, learn to use the software, and use sources. That way you won't come across as deceptive, or just wrong.
 
2) Climate scientists are just honestly wrong

Sometimes they are. No different than any other human being on the planet, including you and me both.

However, that brings up an important point. Just because people can be wrong from time to time, some more often than others, doesn't mean the consensus on AGW is wrong. The more people involved and checking the data and the conclusions, the less likely for any glaring completely wrong conclusions though. Not impossible, but certainly less likely.

One thing I fought long and hard about was for people to understand the mistake being made about forests. Forests have a reason for being. Many reasons actually. But as a general rule most forests are carbon neutral long term. That is to say their benefit is in the short carbon cycle, not so much the long carbon cycle that affects climate. The long cycle with regard to terrestrial systems is the soil. And particularly the soils under grasslands, not forests. Any soil scientist will confirm this. It is easy to look up and confirm for yourself as well.

Mollisols form in semi-arid to semi-humid areas, typically under a grassland cover....Mollisols have deep, high organic matter, nutrient-enriched surface soil (A horizon), typically between 60–80 cm in depth. This fertile surface horizon, known as a mollic epipedon, is the defining diagnostic feature of Mollisols. [1]

Of course Mollic soils are just one of many soil types, but as a general rule, this and others like Chernozem that are of major agricultural importance formed under grassland not forests, and have much deeper and much higher carbon content than the majority of forest soils. And soil carbon undisturbed is actually the long cycle in most cases.

Yet as well understood as this is, you still find many climate scientists making the same mistake the IPCC made here:

However, human activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels and clearing of forests, have greatly intensified the natural greenhouse effect, causing global warming.[1]

They should know that the real problem with regards to AGW is the deterioration of those fertile grasslands. The long term carbon effect of forests is close to carbon neutral and the soils under them generally contain far less carbon.
 
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Again, you use a fallacy.

You keep saying that without ever identifying that fallacy. Stop it.

Now answer my question; or admit that you don't have an answer.

Are you ever going to answer my question ? Why, in your opinion, does a layman like you finds the conclusion from the data painfully and insultingly obvious, but the vast majority of experts on the topic disagree. What is more likely, according to you ?

1) Climate scientists are stupid
2) Climate scientists are just honestly wrong
3) Climate scientists are paid or otherwise corrupted to lie about global warming.
4) The layman is wrong

Feel free to add possibilities, but please pick one.
 
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