Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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macdoc said:
To a degree I agree - Sweden shows a strong planned path including nuclear in the mix.

There are two objectives.

...dealing with the warming we have instigated and will continue to reap the consequences of for the next couple of thousand years. Coping in other words.

.....attempting to reduce the carbon so that the immediate consequences are mitigated and the long term consequences delayed or eliminated.

For instance 2C by 2100 is not all that outside the Holocene and a climate held to that in a carbon neutral world will still drift back to a cooler regime over time as the orbital influences dictate preserving the major ice formations and leaving future generations with a similar benign climate that the current biome and human civilization developed in.

4C and up...??? ouch....very different long term and short term outcomes. A very altered world.
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My personal consideration is that we will blow through 2C by around 2060 (we're already half way there and emissions are still increasing not decreasing) and will be looking at 4-6C by the first decade or two of the 22nd century.
 
Mikemcc said:
No surprises, but all that snow has melted again. http://www.thredbo.com.au/mountain/live-cams/
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probably because it actually is summer when these pictures were taken.

Though to be fair, it is quite probable that the camera was not an American tourist's and was actually a stationary park camera, which appears to be the case, from this later picture above. I had forgotten that Australia uses the UK dating system which puts day first, then month, then year. I've run into snowfalls around Tahoe in early June, they generally only last for a few hours, but it makes for some surprises if you are out dirt-bike riding and caught unprepared. My apologies for previous, undeserved snark.
 
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macdoc said:
New Mexico is 34 degrees north....2 degrees nearer the equator than your....ahem ....Snowy Mountains.


New Mexico mean elevation is 1,700m.
It can generally snow any time of the year in Alpine environments......your little snips of nonsense of just leave the impression there is no substance to your claims.....but of course there is not.

••

I'm have fun finding out just how nuts the weather was in 2013 in many areas. :boggled:
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try this updated page linking the same article which explains that the picture above was an archive winter photo that was used instead of actual photos of the event, which was a thunderstorm that dropped a foot of hail (not snow) on the small town in the New Mexico mountains.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...JULY-crazy-summer-storm-leaves-foot-hail.html
 
Arnold Martin said:
A bit more on Spain's Solar Issues

I believe Spain generates over 50% of electricity via solar panels renewables and now the government wants to tax it heavily.


(from the article)

On 1 August protesters, many of which were wearing solar panels, arrived outside a prison in Barcelona to “turn themselves in” for being supporters of solar energy that they claim the government’s hefty fines would effectively criminalise.

Spain’s draft laws that would make self-generated solar more expensive than regular grid electricity could expose the country’s banks to a €20 billion (US$26.6 billion) bubble, according to analysts NPD Solarbuzz.

Proposed new laws would fine those with solar panels making use of the old off-grid, self-consumption programme (known as “autoconsumo”) by as much as €30 million (US$39.9 million) if they did not connect to the grid.

http://www.pv-tech.org/news/npd_solarbuzz_spains_solar_u_turn_could_expose_20_billion_pv_bubble_5647
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Is the reason for this similar to why in the States you have to hook into the city water grid as opposed to going it alone with your own well?(for those who live in the city)
 
Iamme said:
Is the reason for this similar to why in the States you have to hook into the city water grid as opposed to going it alone with your own well?(for those who live in the city)
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This is not a universal rule. In Sacramento, for instance a large portion of the homes have independent wells as well as septic tanks and leach fields.

More to the point of this political issue in Spain. The new conservative government there has instituted a number of ridiculous austerity measures which are threatening to turn a bad economy into a total meltdown. Much like our homegrown conservidiots they are trying to reverse Spain's renewable energy programs of the last decade and make those who invested in these programs pay for the economic mishandling and deficits generated two decades ago by gas and oil speculators (similar to what happened a while back in California with Enron). Its a mess, but it belongs in politics and has no place in the climate change thread.
 
CapelDodger said:
The Industrial Revolution was already well under way, and the use of steam led to all sorts of questions which ultimately led to thermodynamics (and very efficient steam engines). According to thermodynamics the Earth should be much colder than it is, leading to the question of why. Fourier came up with the hypothesis and later Tyndall identified the mechanism - today we know it as the greenhouse effect.
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Interesting. That answers my question. But i thought i was taught the so named industrial revolution started in the early 20th century. I just broke my posting to google wiki and to my surprise it said it started as early as 1760. You learn something new everyday...if your willing.
Maybe its because i watched too many the Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Rawhide, Little House on the Prarie, etc., tv shows. :th:
 
Trakar said:
June 12 2012 (6-12-2012) is the middle of winter in Australia not the middle of summer. I shouldn't think it was necessary to tell anyone over the age of 8 that seasons are the opposite in the North and South hemispheres.
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Snow in the higher parts of Australia are not unusual in early summer, December.
The Snowy Mountains have even had snow on Christmas Day.
Snow later in summer is as far as I know unheard of.
 
Haig said:
Snow falling. In Australia. In summer. That is all :D
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Best comment quote: "this is all predicted by Global Warming, sorry, Climate change! sorry Extreme weather..... The world is getting hotter, cooler, wetter, dryer.... It's all in the IPCC bible.... If you don't pay a tax on the air you breathe so we can redistribute your wealth we are all doomed....."

http://www.news.com.au/technology/e...mmer-that-is-all/story-e6frflp0-1226775945701
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The best comment is just sheer moronic ignorance of AGW, how it works and what the claims for it are. If that's the best comment, I hate to think how utterly stupid the worst comment was. :rolleyes:

Australia is on the edge of the Great Southern Ocean, we get cold outbursts from the Antarctic at any time of the year, this type of event is not unknown. The snow is gone is in a few days.
 
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It's cold in New England so up pops Donald Trump to remind every one what freaky company deniers keep. At last the man does the world a service.

In a week or two there'll be no ships trapped in ice and the New England snow will have melted, Spain will be in the same godawful mess, and there'll be new squirrels pointed at. Meanwhile we've had another top ten year, without an El Nino, and much of the temperate Southern Hemisphere is having a very torrid summer. Low snowpack in California is furrowing some brows but the winter is young yet.

In the denier reality we have squirrels and regurgitation. The same old faces reciting the same old drivel while looking that bit older and more worn. The ever-imminent dangled carrot of cooling keeps the donkeys plodding dutifully on, as it has done for decades.

There are no new stars in the denier galaxy, no new ideas, no real entertainment. The whole movement is tired and dispirited, for all its bluster.
 
a_unique_person said:
Strawman, so not worth responding to. It is indicitive of the weakness of the denier case that they cannot respond to the actual claims made for global warming, but have to make up their own claims to ridicule.
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And make up their own ridiculous claims about the power, and even nature, of the UN, the IPCC, and the IPCC reports. Not so much Kyoto any more; all those frothing predictions of national bankruptcy have been sent down the memory-hole.

Then there's the squirrels. Any case resorting to squirrels so regularly is inherently weak.
 
macdoc said:
and losing it's funding
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Indeed, it's coasting on the commitment of attention-junkies and true believers. Associating with them is social death these days. Trump? Monckton? These are the cut-price C-list faces of the denier movement.

Even UAH is going off-scripture. As the years go by and more data comes in it becomes ever harder to tune their method and code to get a low trend. They're too tired to start again, with all the existing data, so what they've launched is going to go its own sweet way from now on.

The bizarre twist is that HADCrut - the target of SlimeItGate - is now the preferred source.
 
a_unique_person said:
Yes, the solar cycles will come and go, CO2 in the atmosphere is there for much longer. I don't know why the 'skeptics' have such a fixation on solar cycles. They are something that are completely independent of AGW cause by increased CO2.

The solar output has actually been declining already, but temperatures have still been rising. :eek:
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Solar cycles are tiny in comparison to what greenhouse gasses do and claims to be able to predict them beyond the know 11/22 year cycle amount to little more than numerology. Clearly the deniers are grasping at straws.
 
a_unique_person said:
Scientists just study things. That's what they do. They had no idea of any trends, AFAIK.
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By Arrhenius's time in the late 19thCE a CO2 trend was being noticed. Students were often set this sort of task as a test of practical laboratory skills, and over time the results for CO2 were trending upwards. Very slightly.

Over half the cumulative fossil-fuel emissions have happened since 1976, and the trend has, of course, become much more obvious.
 
lomiller said:
Solar cycles are tiny in comparison to what greenhouse gasses do and claims to be able to predict them beyond the know 11/22 year cycle amount to little more than numerology. Clearly the deniers are grasping at straws.
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Solar scientists, revelling in the stream of data from marvellous intruments and privy to matter and energy fluxes below the surface, aren't making any predictions, but they're having a great time. Not only do they have that but the Sun throws a wobbly. A little too soon for them to have a good sense of what's normal, perhaps, but this cycle definitely isn't it.

The carrot of Solar Cycle 24 has been dangled since at least 2007, and it has indeed been an odd one, but the cooling it was said to promise still remains just a promise.
 
lionking said:
Nothing obscures the fact that it was the hottest year on record in Australia, and well above (1.5C by memory) the historical average.

ETA, 1.2C above.
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Mr Lion

Please help me understand something

When an area of the world experiences higher temperatures it is credited to Global Warming

When an area of the world experiences lower temperatures it cannot be credited to Global cooling

Thank you
 
Arnold Martin said:
Mr Lion

Please help me understand something

When an area of the world experiences higher temperatures it is credited to Global Warming

When an area of the world experiences lower temperatures it cannot be credited to Global cooling

Thank you
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there is no global cooling. what the hecj are you talking about.

you know next to nothin about this topic, why don't you get informed, your comments here are just an embarrassment.
 
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