Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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and more to come in Britain and we've got a high wind alert in Canada.....fun wow..

More storms ahead as thousands still without power

A submerged car next to a boat in East Farleigh, Maidstone, Kent
The Environment Agency is concerned about further flooding on the Medway in Kent

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71960000/jpg/_71960276_eastfarleighreuters2.jpg

More gales and heavy rain are set to hit the UK as the Environment Agency warns of further significant disruption from floods in southern England.

Many rivers remain swollen after storm damage caused power cuts and travel delays. More than 50 flood warnings are in place for England and Wales.

About 1,200 homes in south-east and south-west England have been flooded.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25517504
 
Weather is climate

Share your weather stories here.

Right now it's unusually warm, so that means climate change. Plus it rained a lot two days ago.

Weather events are signs of climate change.
macdoc said:
and more to come in Britain and we've got a high wind alert in Canada.....fun wow..
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It's scientific. A big storm is a sign of climate change. Human caused climate change.

Oh, and if you want to post in this topic you have to agree that weather events prove climate change.

Any dissent will be reported as off topic.

You can learn more about how weather means climate change here (as of this post our planet has accumulated 2,048,881,819 Hiroshima atomic bombs of energy because of climate change)

So if you don't think it is real remember that is over two billion bombs dropped on Hiroshima so far.

Extreme weather means climate change. So things like tornadoes, wind, ice, snow and heavy rain shows climate change. So does unusual heat, extreme cold, heavy snow, lack of snow, no snow, more snow than anyone has ever recorded before, and ice storms.

Flooding can be considered weather, since it means climate change. So does drought. And record heat. So share your weather stories and show the world how science can make a difference.
 
Right, so here in Vermont it snowed then it iced then it thawed then it rained then it froze then it got really cold then it thawed then it sleeted in between the rain and the snow and I think the sun turned up for about three hours, and then there was another day after that. So my conclusion is that the climate is being really climatic and if you would like me to say it's all your fault I'll be happy to oblige.
 
Trakar said:
Now that, is a statement of faith!
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I think ideogram is referring to what Terry Pratchett calls "lies to children": giving a simple, but not entirely accurate, explanation at first and, when that has been grasped, gradually expanding and correcting it to explain the more complex ramifications. Like describing the atom to children as electrons going around the nucleus the way that planets go round the sun and, only when they have acquired the maths to support a better understanding, admitting that there's actually a bit more to it than that ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children

The definition given in The Science of Discworld is as follows: "A lie-to-children is a statement that is false, but which nevertheless leads the child's mind towards a more accurate explanation, one that the child will only be able to appreciate if it has been primed with the lie". The authors acknowledge that some people might dispute the applicability of the term lie, while defending it on the grounds that "it is for the best possible reasons, but it is still a lie".
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lomiller said:
I, on the other hand, was born in Churchill and lived in Northern Manitoba until I tuned 18. If you think this years freeze up was early than clearly there is something wrong because 30 years ago this would have been called a normal, average winter.
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That is my point exactly , we are having a normal cold winter .... which is completely different than what the warmists predicted .... they said most of the ice would be melted by now.
 
Arnold Martin said:
That is my point exactly , we are having a normal cold winter .... which is completely different than what the warmists predicted .... they said most of the ice would be melted by now.
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That wasn't what lomiller said though. He said that if you think it's unusually cold now, there's a problem, because as a native he can tell you that this is normal.

That said, this thread is about climate, not weather. Please stay on topic.
 
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Arnold Martin said:
The psychological mindset of the denier was orchestrated when (some) politicians and (some) scientists told us the Armageddon story that the earth was cooking and melting and drowning.

They started it.

We (deniers) have simply been cautious not to believe it at first glance

20 years later we have not been convinced our caution was misplaced.

20 years from now I expect our caution will be validated

Thank you
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Darn straight. Thanks for posting.

Ya' know, the story the Global Warming Alarmists tell sound a lot like the New Testament description of Hell. I mean, if mankind denies Global Warming and thus keeps offending the Earth Goddess, then he is condemned to everlasting Heat (i.e., Fire) and Flooding. Which, I got to admit that the Global Warming version of everlasting punishment is even better than the Bibles - for it combines Hell and the Great Flood in one. :D

Welll..."Hah hah" on you Global Warming Alamists....we don't believe your fairy tales. :p
 
Jules Galen said:
Darn straight. Thanks for posting.

Ya' know, the story the Global Warming Alarmists tell sound a lot like the New Testament description of Hell. I mean, if mankind denies Global Warming and thus keeps offending the Earth Goddess, then he is condemned to everlasting Heat (i.e., Fire) and Flooding. Which, I got to admit that the Global Warming version of everlasting punishment is even better than the Bibles - for it combines Hell and the Great Flood in one. :D

Welll..."Hah hah" on you Global Warming Alamists....we don't believe your fairy tales. :p
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Please make a scientific argument for once.
 
Arnold Martin said:
That is my point exactly , we are having a normal cold winter ....
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The point is that this was a normal winter in the Arctic 30 years ago, but now it's an unusually cold one.

If winters like this once again become the norm then you can conclude that the predictions of the climatologists were wrong. If we're back to the new much-warmer-than-30-years-ago norm next year and the year after you can't.

they said most of the ice would be melted by now.
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Nobody said that. The prediction 10-15 years ago was that we would see an ice-free Arctic ocean in the summer by 2080, now most predictions are that it will occur by 2040 with a small chance of it occurring in the next 10 years. But the year after it occurs for the first time there will almost certainly be ice again the following summer. The frequency of ice-free summers will then gradually increase until it becomes the norm. But even at the current rate of warming it will be centuries before the Arctic is ice free in the winter.
 
Jules Galen said:
Darn straight. Thanks for posting.

Ya' know, the story the Global Warming Alarmists tell sound a lot like the New Testament description of Hell. I mean, if mankind denies Global Warming and thus keeps offending the Earth Goddess, then he is condemned to everlasting Heat (i.e., Fire) and Flooding. Which, I got to admit that the Global Warming version of everlasting punishment is even better than the Bibles - for it combines Hell and the Great Flood in one. :D

Welll..."Hah hah" on you Global Warming Alamists....we don't believe your fairy tales. :p
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you are an atheist, yet you fall for the cult of science denial.......

you know virtually nothing about the science, but you just know AGW is wrong.....

do you think the scientists are merely misstaken or do you think they lie ? all those universities, they all lie?
 
DC said:
do you think the scientists are merely misstaken or do you think they lie ? all those universities, they all lie?
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That is the question, isn't it, beyond which a conspiracy theory inexorably lies.
 
Arnold Martin said:
That is my point exactly , we are having a normal cold winter .... which is completely different than what the warmists predicted .... they said most of the ice would be melted by now.
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Does it not register with you that if the coldest winter in the last decade would have merely been normal 3 decades ago that something is wrong? How about the fact that a normal year is only occurring once a decade?


While I wasn't in Churchill this year and can't speak for what happened there, I was in Northern Manitoba in late October and there was no snow on the ground for Halloween. When I was a kid there was always snow on the ground by then that would last the remainder of the winter. If the cold winters are like this what do you think happens to the warm ones?
 
Red Baron Farms said:
Exactly.

Climate change connection -Grasslands



Tallgrass Prairies May Provide Early Warning Of Climate Change
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It looks any bus takes you to the organic farming temple. You continue to drop here off-topic assorted item. Now it looks you are just googling to freshen up your spamming campaign. That's why you

Link to an extremely old press article which title is unrelated to the content. All of it but the last paragraph which is plain silly in the context of the article:

Knapp said although Kansans already have a strong affinity for the state's tallgrass prairies, this research gives the prairies "added value" in terms of their potential role in detecting changes in future climates.
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No real paper is linked or referred in that piece...

With the other link you manufactured a title using elements of the sitemap and url and it's just the source for you quotation followed by the core of your spamming campaign:

Red Baron Farms said:
When you consider that land use changes have made that 95-99 % into cropland, which is a net emissions source... When you consider that unlike forests which are very nearly carbon neutral, grasslands are a net carbon sink... It quickly becomes apparent that changing agriculture is the top way to begin to....
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Here you shamelessly resort to false data (being «land use changes have made that 95-99 % into cropland,» just one of them) in an Olympic non-sequitur, just to promote your campaign.

The only thing that "quickly becomes apparent" is that you are completely involved in doing anything to promote your fancy ideas. And the fact that you never reply criticism with any remotely-related-to-science analysis is proof of how weak your notions are.
 
It must again be noted that you are discussing the weather in Manitoba and not global climate. While the increase of warm winters in Manitoba no doubt is a symptom of global warming, it is merely a data-point, and should probably be treated as such in a discussion with a denier.
 
Arnold Martin said:
That is my point exactly , we are having a normal cold winter .... which is completely different than what the warmists predicted .... they said most of the ice would be melted by now.
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Yes, what is normal is now exceptional. That's what lomiller said. But the exception is less exceptional just because the exception is now and the exception now is a harbinger of the exception becoming the rule again soon, is that your argument against global warming? You may continue mouthing anything you like, but your "conviction" about global warming comes from your epistemological hedonism -good look trying to even superficially grasp that concept-. So you'll have no problem in continue to hold your denialist vision as it's just a part of your religious belief and as such it doesn't need scientific confirmation. The fact that you are unable to understand it also helps a lot.
 
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Do you mean that single weather events are climate, or do you mean that weather trends are climate? Because honestly, they are related to one another, even though they are not the same thing.
 
I'd like to point out that there are two issues: one is whether or not the climate is changing as a result of human activities, and to what extent.

If we reach a conclusion about that first one, there is a second issue (amoung many others) of what affects that is having on weather patterns around the world.

Looking at that second issue doesn't mean taking weather as evidence of climate change.
 
10 day forecast shows temperatures at around +/- 4 degree off the norm each day. ITS TOO AVERAGE, MUST BE GLOBAL WARMING!
 
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