Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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I cannot reconcile that with the (claims) that those same ice fields have remained there for 800,000 years .
You know, you only needed to click on the wiki link I gave and then reference 7 (the number was included in the quote) to find the BBC article describing the study in question, which gives details of the site at which the core was obtained. You then only had to google Dome C to find out more about this remarkable site over 1000 km from the ocean where the ice is over 3 km deep, and the extraordinary work done there at research station Concordia.

Are you denying all the rhetoric of the past 25 years saying the polar ice caps were melting and would put all our shorelines under water ??
The science of the past 25 years predicted that the Arctic Ocean would be ice free in summer by 2080 (gradually reduced to 2040 as a result of observations) whilst the vast Antarctic ice sheets would take millennia to melt.
 
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Are you denying all the rhetoric of the past 25 years saying the polar ice caps were melting and would put all our shorelines under water ??

remember that ??? .... I do.

So My point is very simple .... do we have global shoreline flooding ?? ... No , we do not

The prediction was never that we would see the end result of global warming by 2013. Sea levels are rising, as predicted, and due to the reason given, mostly by thermal expansion since the oceans are warming.

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/

The ice melt is something that is harder to predict. It could be extreme, it could be moderate. Given the unexpected collapse in the Arctic ice extent, the risk is real.
 
Ive read every post since my last post. Sure is a lot to know regarding this subject.
I wonder why Sean Hannity would embarrass himself over the airwaves, saying AGW is not true? I think Rush in this camp also? Cant remember for sure, but i think so. I think they have painted it as some liberal agenda, where basically anything Al Gore has to say is foolish poppycock. Probably started from claims made that he invented the internet.
 
good for you
reading this whole thread - following the links in my signature will help you understand

the real difficulty is in what path to follow tho sweden is a long way towards carbon neutral and shows it can done within a vibrant and competitive modern society
 
Even that part of it is wrong. NOAA's own data indicates that the warming stopped in the late 1990s and it's actually been cooling over the past few years.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/what-global-warming-2012-data-confirms-earth-cooling-trend

No. No, it hasn't been cooling over the past few years. And even if it had, been literally cooling over the past 3 years, 3 years is not enough time to establish a climate trend, up or down. Any climate scientist will tell you thy need at least a decade (why they prefer to use decadal averages to get rid of yearly "noise"when examine trends) and preferably 2 decades to establish an accurate trend.

But, no, it's not been cooling lately. http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-january-2007-to-january-2008.htm

http://grist.org/climate-energy/global-warming-stopped-in-1998/
 
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Are you denying all the rhetoric of the past 25 years saying the polar ice caps were melting and would put all our shorelines under water ??

remember that ??? .... I do.

Sure, I remember it. But I don't know where you got this "by 2013" thing from; I don't remember anything like that.
 
Because a cooling stratosphere is one of the signatures of carbon dioxide trapping heat in the troposphere.

Stratospheric Cooling and Tropospheric Warming

Posted on 1 December 2010 by Bob Guercio
This post has been revised at Stratospheric Cooling and Tropospheric Warming - Revised
Increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere have resulted in the warming of the troposphere and cooling of the stratosphere.

This paper will explain the mechanism involved by considering a model of a fictitious planet with an atmosphere consisting of carbon dioxide and an inert gas such as nitrogen at pressures equivalent to those on earth. This atmosphere will have a troposphere and a stratosphere with the tropopause at 10 km. The initial concentration of carbon dioxide will be 100 parts per million (ppm) and will be increased instantaneously to 1000 ppm and the solar insolation will be 385.906 watts/meter2. Figure 1 is the IR spectrum from a planet with no atmosphere and Figures 2 and 3 represent the same planet with levels of CO2 at 100 ppm and 1000 ppm respectively. These graphs were generated from a model simulator at the website of Dr. David Archer, a professor in the Department of the Geophysical Sciences at the University of Chicago and edited to contain only the curves of interest to this discussion. The parameters were chosen in order to generate diagrams that enable the reader to more easily understand the mechanism discussed herein.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Stratospheric-Cooling-and-Tropospheric-Warming.html

It's illustrative of how serious dumb the deniers are about science.....they are quoting NOAA about a record cold stratosphere, not understanding that actually is a very strong confirmation of AGW.
 
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Iamme: think of the greenhouse gases as being like the bedclothes that keeps you warm at night. If you lie on your bed without any bedclothes over you the heat from your body escapes, so the air above you is warmed. Put a blanket or duvet over you and the heat of your body is retained, hence the air above you is cooler than it would otherwise have been.

The actual mechanism is quite complicated, this is the best article I've found:

http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/20c.html
 
Even that part of it is wrong. NOAA's own data indicates that the warming stopped in the late 1990s and it's actually been cooling over the past few years.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/what-global-warming-2012-data-confirms-earth-cooling-trend

No. No, it hasn't been cooling over the past few years. And even if it had, been literally cooling over the past 3 years, 3 years is not enough time to establish a climate trend, up or down. Any climate scientist will tell you thy need at least a decade (why they prefer to use decadal averages to get rid of yearly "noise"when examine trends) and preferably 2 decades to establish an accurate trend.

But, no, it's not been cooling lately. http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-january-2007-to-january-2008.htm

http://grist.org/climate-energy/global-warming-stopped-in-1998/

Getting old, but still relevant

 
I noticed the sun and fluctuating temperatures being mentioned.
If one wanted to see if the sun even has any affect whatsoever in regard to say inconsistant heating patterns on the Earth.......
Since the Earth is so complex with all the variables being discussed, wouldnt thermometers placed on the moon prove something, since the moon is void of variables?
I also read a page or two back in this thread that CO2 levels were like 270 ppm back in 1800, while 400 ppm now. You mean they had instruments back in 1800 to know this? And also are there variations of this percentage when measured globally? Iow, did they then and do we now take measurements for this all over the world and then avg the results? If so....they did this in 1800, when we werent even flying yet? Were/are these measurements taken in the atmosphere at a certain determined height?, or dont that matter?
Also i read within these thread pages that the world has never been hotter in the last million years. How do they know that?; from Earth core samples on dry land or say even Antarctica?, or other markers, that they know for a fact that indicates this?, that there never were periods of say 20 or 100 year periods(or whatever small geologic time frame) mixed into those million years, here and there, that fluctuated greatly from the norm?

Apparently it's true that global warming causes an increase in goalpost speed.
 
I often wonder how the debate would be right now if "Climate Change" had been used from the start instead of "Global Warming" so that so many people couldn't get hung up on the "But it's cold where I'm at right now, how can there be global warming?" disconnect.
 
That was Al Gore, about the arctic ocean.

Meanwhile, I really hope they can rescue the people trapped in the ice.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/31/world/antarctic-ship-stuck/

Certainly much hay is being made of this situation.

The people are trapped in the Antarctic. The poles have significant differences in climate. IANAE, but one of them is the geography, the Arctic is based on ocean and sea ice, the Antarctic is based on a significant land mass. They are going to have signficant differences in response to AGW. The denialosphere will make much of this situation, for sure.
 
I often wonder how the debate would be right now if "Climate Change" had been used from the start instead of "Global Warming" so that so many people couldn't get hung up on the "But it's cold where I'm at right now, how can there be global warming?" disconnect.

When you look at the collective behaviour on the human species in response to various challenges, we seem to respond with the collective intelligence of a newt.
 
Welcome to the Holocene - where extreme weather is the norm

A year of weather extremes for Northern Ireland
Barra Best
By Barra Best
BBC Weather

Livestock and wild animals were affected by the snow storms in March
Continue reading the main story
Northern Ireland review of 2013

It has been a remarkable year for Northern Ireland weather.

We endured the coldest spring for more than three decades, we finally enjoyed a barbecue summer, and winter storms battered the coast.
Winter hit hard in mid-January when snow led to power cuts for thousands, it delayed and cancelled flights and provided the first big test of winter for gritters.

Speaking on the day the snow hit, Colin Sykes from the Roads Service said: "We've had more than 300 staff and 132 gritters on standby.

"We have been gritting all this morning and today, and we expect to grit all through this evening and night."

The bigger snow event hit two months later in March which, incidentally, was the coldest March in 50 years.

It provided postcard scenery and lots of fun, but it also caused devastation for sheep and cattle farmers who lost thousands of animals to the elements.

Army helicopters were drafted in to deliver food to livestock.

"Farmers are nothing if not resilient and with the help of the government's fallen stock and fodder transport schemes many began to rebuild their businesses," Harry Sinclair, president of the Ulster Farmer's Union said.

"Fortunately, the weather for the rest of 2013 was much kinder to farmers. The good summer weather and mild autumn/winter has meant that harvests have been good, fodder stocks replenished, slurry spread and livestock were out in many fields well into November.

"For the most part farmers are ending 2013 on a high and are hoping that 2014 brings with it good weather."

Portstewart
In December, a children's playground in Portstewart was flooded by waves crashing over the sea wall
Emergency services were also used to deliver food and medical supplies to homes in the countryside that were cut-off by the snow.

"We've had people who haven't been able to get their medication, so we've been arranging to have that delivered," PSNI officer Alison Ferguson said in March.

"We've also used the helicopters in the most inaccessible areas to try to get supplies to those homes."

Mediterranean temperatures
It was in July that the weather went from one extreme to another, with the summer heat-wave most people had been waiting for. For two weeks we basked in temperatures normally recorded around the Mediterranean.
At one point, temperatures soared to 30.1C - that is just below the all-time record high of 30.8C set at Shaws Bridge in Belfast on 12 July 1983.

more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25491923

and Merrie Olde is still getting hammered...

The Environment Agency has said there are 46 flood warnings in England and Wales, 26 of which are in the south west of England.

Devon battered by severe weather

New Year's Day brings heavy rain

Rain and winds bring new year misery

Search for man washed out to sea

Cork city centre flooding alert

New Year's Day flood warnings for UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25567975

what was the bit about tidings of comfort and joy ??? ;)
 
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