• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Ghislaine Maxwell

Vixen said:
Bear in mind I am looking specifically at Maxwell's case from the POV of a court. It isn't going to be enough to just recount an experience. Generally in serious crime, a high bar of probability is needed. If only two of these women ever came forward out of several hundred, the prosecutor is bound to ask why. Yes, witness testimony counts as evidence but would they withstand cross-examination? You saw how disgustingly brutal Weinstein;s rottweiler counsel was. Filmed across the world, as well.
Click to expand...

I'm losing track of what your point is. This originally came up in pointing out that a failure to report isn't a good indicator of whether the accused crime occurred.
 
Vixen said:
Your empathy doesn't seem to stretch to a late-middle-aged woman in custody on remand awaiting trial being subjected to forms of torture by the prison guards.
Click to expand...

Correct. My empathy does not stretch to sex traffickers and rapists, I reserve that for their victims.

And yes, I have come to the conclusion that she actually did the things she is accused of. The evidence against her is overwhelming, and I fully expect her to be found guilty and spend a long time in jail. If she somehow gets off, it will be on some obscure technicality, and it will not change my opinion of her one single bit. The ONLY thing that might change my opinion is if every single accuser recanted their accusations, and they all confessed that they made it up.
 
Last edited:
gnome said:
I'm losing track of what your point is. This originally came up in pointing out that a failure to report isn't a good indicator of whether the accused crime occurred.
Click to expand...

Gnome, the point of reporting it, even if only to your doctor is so that there is an official record of your injuries. Unfortunately, if it goes to court some level of corroboration is expected. Sadly, when something is in the public eye and there is a large potential compensation pot, frauds do come forward. For example, a fund was set up for the Grenfell Fire victims and amazingly, a whole bunch of people came forward to claim some of it - funds intended for people made homeless, who lost everything in the fire - who later turned out to be imposters. One guy even went on television with a sob story about how he had lost his entire family. He was jailed for fraud.
 
smartcooky said:
Correct. My empathy does not stretch to sex traffickers and rapists, I reserve that for their victims.

And yes, I have come to the conclusion that she actually did the things she is accused of. The evidence against her is overwhelming, and I fully expect her to be found guilty and spend a long time in jail. If she somehow gets off, it will be on some obscure technicality, and it will not change my opinion of her one single bit. The ONLY thing that might change my opinion is if every single accuser recanted their accusations, and they all confessed that they made it up.
Click to expand...

The evidence against Jeffrey Epstein is overwhelming. There is no doubt Maxwell procured and controlled prostitutes, for the purpose of parties and jet set entertainment. However, you don't know: she, too, might be a victim of Epstein. She hasn't been charged with rape or sexual assault. The entire issue is the alleged age of some of the women she supposedly recruited.

There was a story in the paper today of a German gang of paedophiles who imprisoned young boys (11 years old) for pornography and indecency. The gang leader got...14 years.

Puts the 35 - 80 years you are demanding for Maxwell into perspective.
 
Matthew Best said:
Hold on a minute. Why don't you think that if she were a victim of Epstein, she should have gone to the police years ago? It seems like there's one rule for Maxwell, and a completely different rule for her victims.
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to crime, I was referring to being in a controlling and possibly abusive relationship. Epstein actually had several SO's, it doesn't mean they were aware of what he did behind closed doors. Both Maxwell and Guiffre were in Epstein's employment. It was Maxwell's job to organise the events. Giuffre was employed by Epstein for five years.
 
Vixen said:
The evidence against Jeffrey Epstein is overwhelming. There is no doubt Maxwell procured and controlled prostitutes, for the purpose of parties and jet set entertainment. However, you don't know: she, too, might be a victim of Epstein.
Click to expand...

In the same way that German soldiers who shot "undesirables" in the Reich were "victims" of Hitler, sure.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with her guilt. Stop daydreaming about how completely innocent she must've been while trafficking adults AND minors to a sex ring.
 
Vixen said:
I wasn't referring to crime, I was referring to being in a controlling and possibly abusive relationship. Epstein actually had several SO's, it doesn't mean they were aware of what he did behind closed doors. Both Maxwell and Guiffre were in Epstein's employment. It was Maxwell's job to organise the events. Giuffre was employed by Epstein for five years.
Click to expand...

Sanctimonious piffle... and more goalpost shifting!
 
Vixen said:
I wasn't referring to crime, I was referring to being in a controlling and possibly abusive relationship. Epstein actually had several SO's, it doesn't mean they were aware of what he did behind closed doors. Both Maxwell and Guiffre were in Epstein's employment. It was Maxwell's job to organise the events. Giuffre was employed by Epstein for five years.
Click to expand...

Are you really going the bible route and claiming that women are mere chattel? Really?
 
Vixen said:
Gnome, the point of reporting it, even if only to your doctor is so that there is an official record of your injuries. Unfortunately, if it goes to court some level of corroboration is expected. Sadly, when something is in the public eye and there is a large potential compensation pot, frauds do come forward. For example, a fund was set up for the Grenfell Fire victims and amazingly, a whole bunch of people came forward to claim some of it - funds intended for people made homeless, who lost everything in the fire - who later turned out to be imposters. One guy even went on television with a sob story about how he had lost his entire family. He was jailed for fraud.
Click to expand...

I am aware that lying for profit is a thing. That doesn't contradict that failure to report happens for many potential reasons, and so that can't be a reason to minimize the significance of the claim.
 
Belz... said:
In the same way that German soldiers who shot "undesirables" in the Reich were "victims" of Hitler, sure.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with her guilt. Stop daydreaming about how completely innocent she must've been while trafficking adults AND minors to a sex ring.
Click to expand...

I have never claimed Ghislaine Maxwell is innocent. I am what is called 'objective'.
Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Rule 12


BTW soldiers conscripted to an army are trained to do what they are told or court martialled. Has it dawned on you yet that people can be sex workers without anyone forcing them? AIUI Maxwell and other staff recruited women for events or 'massage' in the same way they might hire secretaries or IT staff.

Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Rule 0 ; Rule 12
 
Last edited by a moderator:
smartcooky said:
Sanctimonious piffle... and more goalpost shifting!
Click to expand...

How is it goal post shifting. If your spouse were to commit a crime, does it necessarily mean you, too, are guilty or that you even knew about it at the time? So you too should be convicted for someone else's crime by sheer dint of being their partner.
 
gnome said:
I am aware that lying for profit is a thing. That doesn't contradict that failure to report happens for many potential reasons, and so that can't be a reason to minimize the significance of the claim.
Click to expand...

That is true of childhood abuse, when police are happy (in the UK, anyway) to prosecute historical sexual abuse with little more than the say so of the victim.

However, in the case of a stranger or a known person (for example, date rape, or a sex worker rape) it is not so straightforward. The CPS will rarely bring a case of rape unless there is a reasonable prospect of success in convicting. It is highly unlikely to charge someone for a rape that happened in 1997 if the complainant never reported it to the police or has a medical record of the claimed injuries. In the case of in-family child abuse, that is a completely different kettle of fish and has absolutely nothing to do with the Ghislaine Maxwell case.
 
Vixen said:
How is it goal post shifting. If your spouse were to commit a crime, does it necessarily mean you, too, are guilty or that you even knew about it at the time? So you too should be convicted for someone else's crime by sheer dint of being their partner.
Click to expand...

Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Rule 12


She is a sex trafficker - she trafficked under aged girls to a client base of men with a predilection for under aged girls. Epstein, per partner, was also a sex trafficker. That doesn't make her crimes any less serious.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
smartcooky said:
Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Moderated content


She is a sex trafficker - she trafficked under aged girls to a client base of men with a predilection for under aged girls. Epstein, per partner, was also a sex trafficker. That doesn't make her crimes any less serious.
Click to expand...

Then why isn't Giuffre being charged with the same crime? Giuffre openly admits to hiring hundreds of girls, many of them friends at school, according to her own account.

How do you know this isn't a personal vendetta between Giuffre and her former friend Maxwell? Why would she have continued working for Epstein for five years when she was free to walk whenever she wanted. Of course, this has to be explained by calling herself his 'sex slave'. How does that work if you are free to go home every day and never come back?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vixen said:
Then why isn't Giuffre being charged with the same crime? Giuffre openly admits to hiring hundreds of girls, many of them friends at school, according to her own account.
Click to expand...

BECAUSE SHE WAS A VICTIM!!


Vixen said:
How do you know this isn't a personal vendetta between Giuffre and her former friend Maxwell?
Click to expand...

Oh, you have evidence of this? Lets see... put up, or shut up

Vixen said:
Why would she have continued working for Epstein for five years when she was free to walk whenever she wanted. Of course, this has to be explained by calling herself his 'sex slave'. How does that work if you are free to go home every day and never come back?
Click to expand...

Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Rule 0 ; Rule 12
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vixen said:
I have never claimed Ghislaine Maxwell is innocent.
Click to expand...

You've strongly suggested that she's just a victim of Epstein. That is calling her innocent.

I am what is called 'objective'.
Click to expand...

Not anywhere close. You might think you are, but you're not coming across as anything of the sort. Instead, it seems that you're reaching conclusions based on wild assertions and speculations, and not a small amount of contrarianism.

Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>Removed moderated content and response to same
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom