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Ghislaine Maxwell

sackett said:
Who told you that? Or did you make it up yourself?

This is a bigger issue than Gristlejane Mashpee or whatever she did. Do you really, truly, sincerely think that a citizen can decline to report a crime on a personal whim?

If you did such a thing, would you afterwards be able to live at peace with yourself?

Reply or not, whatever you like.
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Posters here are claiming that it is all right that Maxwell's alleged victims did not go to the police or a doctor (which would then show medical records of an assault) because they were 'too traumatised'. If you are sexually assaulted, or just assaulted, there is no obligation for you to go to the police. Thank you for agreeing with me that the parents and grandparents of these 'young girls' had a duty to report the attack on the children in their care as soon as they were aware of it.
 
gabeygoat said:
I don't want to add to the Vixen vitriol though I have lots to say. I was abused sexually from age 4 to 8ish. Vixen's words are hurtful and I don't know why they exist. Just to protect the rich. It's strange and I have all sorts of uneducated guesses as to why
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My comments are directed at the Ghislaine Maxwell forthcoming trial. I have made zero comments on the issue of child abuse. So do read what I actually said instead of taking the word of other people. Maxwell is not charged nor accused of having abused persons who were biological prepubescent children, even if people here keep insisting a seventeen-year-old is a child by definition just like a four- or eight-year-old.

If you would like to start a thread on the topic of childhood abuse then maybe you will get to discover my views on the topic.
 
Vixen said:
Posters here are claiming that it is all right that Maxwell's alleged victims did not go to the police or a doctor (which would then show medical records of an assault) because they were 'too traumatised'.
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NOBODY said that. Stop lying. We all saw the posts.

What we said is that this sort of behaviour is not unusual.
 
Belz... said:
NOBODY said that. Stop lying. We all saw the posts.

What we said is that this sort of behaviour is not unusual.
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So you are the prosecutor. How do you claim Maxwell sexually abused all these 'young girls'? You can't, because she hasn't been charged with it. You have to charge her first and show probable cause. How can you show probable cause if the persons making the accusation of sexual assault have only come forward fifteen to thirty years after the event but claim they were 'too traumatised' to do it before now? It might not be 'unusual' but you will discover a court is not interested in a lecture on sociology. All it wants to know is 'what is the evidence' this happened?
 
Vixen said:
So you are the prosecutor.
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Wow, talk about a non sequitur! The behaviour is not unusual. That has nothing to do with prosecution. What are you even talking about?

How do you claim Maxwell sexually abused all these 'young girls'? You can't, because she hasn't been charged with it.
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Again, that has nothing to do with the post you quoted. Maybe you should organise your thoughts better; you're all over the place.
 
Belz... said:
Wow, talk about a non sequitur! The behaviour is not unusual. That has nothing to do with prosecution. What are you even talking about?



Again, that has nothing to do with the post you quoted. Maybe you should organise your thoughts better; you're all over the place.
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Oh for crying out loud. Do take a peek at what section of the forum this is in: TRIALS. We are discussing a forthcoming trial or at least I was.
 
Belz... said:
I know what it means. But if your argument is that you don't know what you are yourself posting, go for it!



Do you think we have no memory? I've already told you that you don't know what "ad hominem" means, and you folded when I did that. Why are you bringing that back now when you still don't know what it means?
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We can all see it is ad hominem because you save all of your abuse for me and noone else.

ETA: I can't see you directing any rage towards Arcade22 who posted his reservations about people coming forward who were fantasists.
 
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Vixen said:
But Smarty Cooky is claiming special knowledge because of his daughter, as though she is unique in having experienced sexual assault.
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More lies. I claimed no such thing. Why do you have to keep lying about what others post, Don't you realise we can all read what others post?
 
Vixen said:
<irrelevant lies and goalpost moving snipped>


Can I ask gently whether your daughter went to the police?
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She pleaded with me not to. She was afraid that her school life would become a living hell, and she was terrified he would come after her if she "snitched to the pigs". She implied that he did threaten that, but I never was able to get to the bottom of whether that really happened. Very much against my better judgement, I went along with what she wanted. It was probably a mistake, but she needed my support, and at the time, I thought the last thing she needed was for me to let her down. I insisted that she write down the date and time and place this happened, and any other details she could think of including the names of people who might have seen what happened or at least know what happened.

In any case, the bastard got sorted out by the brother of one of her friends.

There are a world of reasons why many rapes and sexual assaults go unreported... you just don't accept that people aren't all little clones of one another that all respond the same way to trauma. You know how YOU would respond, and you are so lacking in empathy for anyone else, that you demand everyone else respond the same way.

Nothing in real life even remotely resembles the world-view that you portray here. Nothing!
 
Vixen said:
Your empathy doesn't seem to stretch to a late-middle-aged woman in custody on remand awaiting trial being subjected to forms of torture by the prison guards.
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For someone complaining of emotionally charged words, you throw out the word torture a fair bit.

Making her flush her own damn toilet is not torture. Nor is a bed check.
 
Now it's a duty (bolding in original) to report a crime. A little while ago it was an individual choice.
 
smartcooky said:
She pleaded with me not to. She was afraid that her school life would become a living hell, and she was terrified he would come after her if she "snitched to the pigs". She implied that he did threaten that, but I never was able to get to the bottom of whether that really happened. Very much against my better judgement, I went along with what she wanted. It was probably a mistake, but she needed my support, and at the time, I thought the last thing she needed was for me to let her down. I insisted that she write down the date and time and place this happened, and any other details she could think of including the names of people who might have seen what happened or at least know what happened.

In any case, the bastard got sorted out by the brother of one of her friends.

There are a world of reasons why many rapes and sexual assaults go unreported... you just don't accept that people aren't all little clones of one another that all respond the same way to trauma. You know how YOU would respond, and you are so lacking in empathy for anyone else, that you demand everyone else respond the same way.

Nothing in real life even remotely resembles the world-view that you portray here. Nothing!
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Bear in mind I am looking specifically at Maxwell's case from the POV of a court. It isn't going to be enough to just recount an experience. Generally in serious crime, a high bar of probability is needed. If only two of these women ever came forward out of several hundred, the prosecutor is bound to ask why. Yes, witness testimony counts as evidence but would they withstand cross-examination? You saw how disgustingly brutal Weinstein;s rottweiler counsel was. Filmed across the world, as well.
 
Leftus said:
For someone complaining of emotionally charged words, you throw out the word torture a fair bit.

Making her flush her own damn toilet is not torture. Nor is a bed check.
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Shining a torch is someone's face is in that category. It is well-known that deliberately depriving someone of sleep is a form of torture.

Anybody who has been the parent of a crying baby knows how exhausting it is to not get a proper night sleep for months because baby wakes up every two hours. Imagine if it was every fifteen minutes? For a whole year? A cell permanently lit by a flourescent light and no natural daylight?
 
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