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Ghislaine Maxwell

She's showing a lot of leg on the front page of the (London) Times today. are they trying to change this (alleged) monster into some sort of sexy femme fatale?
 
Bob001 said:
I'd like toi see a cite for that. I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes, but it's hard to imagine that it's routine. I don't see how someone could be prosecuted in France for crimes committed in New York and Florida. And what happens if the defendant is convicted? Does he go to a French jail? Does his home country pay for it? The whole point of prohibiting extradition is to protect a nation's citizens from foreign authority. I doubt they would circumvent it casually.
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ARTICLE 113-6
French criminal law is applicable to any felony committed by a French national outside the territory of the French Republic. It is applicable to misdemeanours committed by French nationals outside the territory of the French Republic if the conduct is punishable under the legislation of the country in which it was committed.

The present article applies even if the offender has acquired French nationality after the commission of the offence of which he is accused.

ARTICLE 113-7
French Criminal law is applicable to any felony, as well as to any misdemeanour punished by imprisonment, committed by a French or foreign national outside the territory of the French Republic, where the victim is a French national at the time the offence took place.

ARTICLE 113-8
In the cases set out under articles 113-6 and 113-7, the prosecution of misdemeanours may only be instigated at the behest of the public prosecutor. It must be preceded by a complaint made by the victim or his successor, or by an official accusation made by the authority of the country where the offence was committed.
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https://www.legislationline.org/documents/section/criminal-codes/country/30/France/show

Similar provisions exist in many of the law codes that I have been able to find in English.
 
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Another example of "universal jurisdiction" that allows for the prosecution of people who can't be extradited (amongst others) is in Swedish law:

Chapter 2 – On the applicability of Swedish law
Section 1
An offence committed in this
country is judged under Swedish
law and in a Swedish court. This
also applies if it is uncertain
where the offence was
committed but there are grounds
to assume that it was committed
in this country. Act 1972:812.

Section 2
An offence committed
abroad is judged under Swedish
law and in a Swedish court if the
offence was committed:
1. by a Swedish citizen or an
alien habitually resident in
Sweden;
2. by an alien not habitually
resident in Sweden who, after
the offence, has become a
Swedish citizen or become
habitually resident in this
country, or who is a Danish,
Finnish, Icelandic or Norwegian
citizen and is in Sweden;
3. by any other alien who is in
this country and the offence can,
under Swedish law, result in
imprisonment for more than six
months; or
4. in the exercise of the
business activities of a Swedish
company and the offence is
giving of a bribe, gross giving of
a bribe or trading in influence
under Chapter 10, Section 5d, point 2.

The first paragraph does not
apply if the act is not subject to
responsibility under the law of
the place where it was
committed or if it was
committed in an area that does
not belong to any state and,
under Swedish law, the penalty
for the act cannot be more severe
than a fine.
In cases referred to in this
Section, no sanction may be
imposed that is considered more
severe than the most severe
penalty provided for the offence
under the law in the place where
it was committed.
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https://www.government.se/government-policy/judicial-system/the-swedish-criminal-code/
 
Arcade22 said:
https://www.legislationline.org/documents/section/criminal-codes/country/30/France/show

Similar provisions exist in many of the law codes that I have been able to find in English.
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Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.
The French Criminal Code of Procedure (CCP) provides for universal jurisdiction over specified offenses emanating from international conventions ratified by France.1 Yet, the CCP does not establish an obligation to prosecute these crimes.2 The principle of universal jurisdiction allows for the investigation and prosecution of crimes regardless of where they were committed, and irrespective of the nationality of the victims and perpetrators.

The following crimes are penalized by French law under universal jurisdiction principles: torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;3 enforced disappearances;4 crimes against cultural property during armed conflict;5 terrorism and financing terrorism;6 offenses committed with nuclear materials;7 unlawful acts against the safety of maritime navigation;8 seizure of aircraft and other crimes related to aviation;9 European Union (EU) corruption crimes;10 crimes within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC);11 and specific road transport offenses.12
....
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https://trialinternational.org/wp-c...l-Jurisdiction-Law-and-Practice-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.
 
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Bob001 said:
Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.

https://trialinternational.org/wp-c...l-Jurisdiction-Law-and-Practice-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.
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If she is really rich enough, that may still happen. Vide Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan.
 
zooterkin said:
The surprise news is that she is apparently married, but won’t name her husband.
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Wha? Isn't it a matter of public record? Isn't there a BDM office (Births Deaths and Marriages - get your mind out of the gutter) that this can be checked up on? A marriage is a legal contract.
 
arthwollipot said:
Wha? Isn't it a matter of public record? Isn't there a BDM office (Births Deaths and Marriages - get your mind out of the gutter) that this can be checked up on? A marriage is a legal contract.
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Where? In the U.S., most birth, marriage and death records are maintained at the local level. You would have to know where she was allegedly married to look at the city or county records there. And they're not entirely public, in the sense that anybody could walk in and say "lemme see." You have to have a reason. I dunno whether she should be believed; she's pretty good at lying.
 
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Bob001 said:
Where? In the U.S., most birth, marriage and death records are maintained at the local level. You would have to know where she was allegedly married to look at the city or county records there. And they're not entirely public, in the sense that anybody could walk in and say "lemme see." You have to have a reason. I dunno whether she should be believed; she's pretty good at lying.
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Oh of course. I forgot. America. :o
 
zooterkin said:
Could be any country in the world, you’d have to know where to start looking even if they did have centralised records.
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Not any country.

Here (and in Australia, where Arth comes from) we have a national "Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages". If I have authorised access, I could simply look up a person's name and find out where they were born, whether or not they were married, and if so, who they were married to. The whole exercise would take less than five minutes.
 
Bob001 said:
Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.

https://trialinternational.org/wp-c...l-Jurisdiction-Law-and-Practice-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.
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Roman Polanski is a exceptional case. The point was that simply avoiding extradition would not mean that she would avoid any and all legal consequences even-though she would have with all likelihood had a better chance of not being convinced in France (unless the evidence was overwhelming) given the increased work required by the Americans.

One of the major problems in "cross-jurisdictional prosecution" (or whatever you want to call it) is that regulations may severely compromise the authorities ability to meet the legal requirements in both jurisdictions. The sharing of evidence is a great example of that. Not to mention that police and prosecutors often quickly lose interest as long as the alleged criminal stays away... and outside of the spotlight.
 
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smartcooky said:
Not any country.

Here (and in Australia, where Arth comes from) we have a national "Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages". If I have authorised access, I could simply look up a person's name and find out where they were born, whether or not they were married, and if so, who they were married to. The whole exercise would take less than five minutes.
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That's once you've established it was in Australia. Sure, once you start looking in Australia, it might not take long, but how do you know that's where to look?
 
smartcooky said:
Yes but Ghosn got bail and managed to escape from that by walking out of his house. Escaping from jail and then fleeing the country is a whole different ballgame.
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OK. But I did say "rich enough". A bribe or two here and there. Rental or theft of a stealth helicopter. Pick up from an open area. Flight into international waters. Transfer to Liberian registered ship. And away we go. Is there anything that cannot be bought with money?

And, don't forget she "has" a lot of scandalous information on lots of important people who might be coerced to cooperate.

;)
 
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