Ghislaine Maxwell

[carlitos]

Or France, where they would just be greeted with a shrug of the shoulders, apparently.

Don't ask me why, but I'm hearing someone with a northeastern US accent saying "garlic" shrug, which would be "gaahlic," maybe while they smoke a gauloise. I have issues.

 

[Leftus]

There is CCTV into her cell, which she has also complained about as it means she has difficulty speaking to her lawyers in private as they can zoom in on legally privileged documents. An electronic device - not dissimilar to a smart watch - would indicate when she was asleep and thus incapable of killing herself...?

Epstein was under camera watch too. Fantastic job it did there. The watch doesn't help prevent a suicide, it will do a superb job of telling you the moment she expired, but prevent suicide? Not even close.

As far as the zoom quality of the cameras, got any evidence? The make and model, perhaps? Does it have a night vision mode?

Does she want the CCTVs turned off? Wouldn't that lead to more in person checking?

 

[theprestige]

In the movies, prisoners always meet with their lawyers in a separate visiting area, reasonably private. Visitors never get admitted all the way into the cell block to talk to the prisoner.

 

[catsmate]

Would that 'trafficking' include Virginia Guiffre's flight to London to visit Prince Andrew? On UK soil, she was not a minor.

Untrue. The age of majority in the UK is eighteen.

Maxwell doesn't have a penis and therefore cannot 'rape'.

Oh good grief, that is just stupid.

How do you know that Maxwell was not also a victim of Epstein?

That would be a matter for her defense counsel to raise. Have they?

Maxwell undoubtedly procured hundreds of women for sex with Epstein,

Good to see you accept this.

some four allegedly underage at the time, probably more.

And hence Maxwell is, by your own assertions, at the very least an accessory to rape.

Bear in mind, the 'perjury' relates to her lying during her deposition when Guiffre took her to court for calling her a liar.

So Maxwell lied under oath, i.e. she perjured herself.

Well, of course Maxwell was going to deny it, so perjury, maybe, but rather a fine line between that and having the right to not incriminate oneself.

 

[Belz...]

Oh good grief, that is just stupid.

See, it's not 'rape' rape!

 

[catsmate]

You are over thinking it. Whilst everybody is dwelling on the prurient sex stuff the bigger story IMV is the powerful empire Epstein and Maxwell managed to build up, which encompassed the Clintons, Prince Charles and Prince Andrew, award-winning scientists, the deep state: this was a massive prostitution racket and yet all people can focus on is the salacious stuff of Epstein's massage table.

I assume you'll be providing evidence for these claims?

Well, no actually I assume you won't be providing evidence at all. As usual.

 

[Leftus]

In the movies, prisoners always meet with their lawyers in a separate visiting area, reasonably private. Visitors never get admitted all the way into the cell block to talk to the prisoner.

Well, I think they can give her documents and such to review in her cell. From there those super zoom cameras with OCR take care of the rest.

 

[catsmate]

What I am trying to point out at great pains is that for all of the things Maxwell could have been prosecuted for (conspiracy? running a prostitution racket? drugs? blackmail? extortion? demanding money with menaces? illegal taping of people having sex? espionage? funding from a hostile foreign power? bribery? corruption? money laundering?) all she has been charged with is the technicality of some members of her sex worker stable being underage and for lying in a deposition. I predict she'll be found guilty, get a nominal sentence, maybe five years and that will be the end of it.

So you agree she was pimping underage girls?

 

[catsmate]

See, it's not 'rape' rape!

Yes, an argument popular with right-wing USAian nuts.

 

[jimbob]

From the UK police officer thread

Channel 4 News


In 2015 the Met Police chose not to open a full criminal investigation into an incident involving Epstein, Maxwell and Prince Andrew in 2001.
Serious questions raised about why Met Police chose not to investigate alleged offences. Police said today they will ‘review the information’ reported by this programme.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revea...ted-in-multiple-uk-abuse-claims-over-a-decade

Coming the day The Met was found to be institutionally corrupt - and there were several complaints over the years against Epstein and Maxwell

 

[bruto]

Bear in mind, the 'perjury' relates to her lying during her deposition when Guiffre took her to court for calling her a liar. Well, of course Maxwell was going to deny it, so perjury, maybe, but rather a fine line between that and having the right to not incriminate oneself.

I do not think it's a fine line at all in the United States, where the right against self-incrimination is in the Constitution.

 

[carlitos]

Lying in court when someone calls you a liar isn't really perjury. More like self-defense.

 

[gnome]

I'm not sure the right to not incriminate yourself is a defense against perjury.

At least in the US, you take the 5th by refusing to answer, not by lying.

In a defamation case, the plaintiff doesn't have to deny the claim. The defendant can choose to argue truth as a defense, but that's on them to do.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm not sure the right to not incriminate yourself is a defense against perjury.

TBF, I don't think anyone was actually arguing that

At least in the US, you take the 5th by refusing to answer, not by lying.

Correct

In a defamation case, the plaintiff doesn't have to deny the claim. The defendant can choose to argue truth as a defense, but that's on them to do.

But if they knowingly lie under oath to deny the claim, that is still perjury.

 

[theprestige]

Pleading Not Guilty to a crime you committed is not perjury. Refusing to testify is not perjury. Giving false testimony is perjury. It's not brain science. Maxwell is not an idiot. She can certainly afford competent and clever legal counsel. This should not have been a difficult concept for her to grasp, or a difficult pitfall to avoid.

 

[theprestige]

Lying in court when someone calls you a liar isn't really perjury.

Yes it is.

More like self-defense.

This sounds like a job for "that's not how any of works."

 

[Segnosaur]

There is CCTV into her cell, which she has also complained about as it means she has difficulty speaking to her lawyers in private as they can zoom in on legally privileged documents.

Assuming of course the camera would have enough resolution and/or zoom capability to read small print on a document.... And assuming she herself would have to read the document (as opposed to the lawyer just telling her what she needs to know)... and assuming she uses her cell to meet with lawyers (as opposed to going to some special meeting room...

Since the location of the camera is probably well established, it should be easy enough for her to (for example) hold the document up in a way that only the back of the document is visible to the camera. Or shield the document with a blank piece of paper.

 

[bruto]

In case my statement above was ambiguous I meant that there is not a fine line between perjury and the fifth amendment, because it is more a moat than a line. Silence and lying are far apart when the right to silence is constitutional.

 

[autumn1971]

You are over thinking it. Whilst everybody is dwelling on the prurient sex stuff the bigger story IMV is the powerful empire Epstein and Maxwell managed to build up, which encompassed the Clintons, Prince Charles and Prince Andrew, award-winning scientists, the deep state: this was a massive prostitution racket and yet all people can focus on is the salacious stuff of Epstein's massage table.

They also are ignoring the Jewish space-lasers and that 9-11 was done by inter dimensional bigfoots!

It was an international sex-slavery and prostitution ring, and those whom the authorities have enough evidence against are being treated as suspects.

 

[autumn1971]

The latter is sadistic and disgusting.
I am surprised there is support for it on this thread.
Even if just simply good men doing nothing.

You find the very notion that the wealthy be treated the same as the non-wealthy under the law to be “sadistic and disgusting.”

Noted.