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Germany and Paris might ban Scientology

Here is what one site says about Scientology?

"Scientologists believe that 75 million years ago an evil galactic ruler, named Xenu, solved overpopulation by bringing trillions of people to Earth in DC-8 space planes, stacking them around volcanoes and nuking them. Then the souls of these dead space aliens were captured and boxed up and taken to cinemas where they were shown films of what life should be like, false ideas containing God, the devil and Christ and told to get ill."

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/what-cos.htm

Also, here is a article on Wiki about parts of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera_in_Scientology_doctrine
 
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If you want to understand $cientology visit Operation Clambake at www.xenu.net

Well, thanks for that, I wasn't too familiar with the stuff $cientology spouts, and after a casual glance at a few articles on your link I'm frankly astonished at the absurdity of it all.
 
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Well, thanks for that, I wasn't too familiar with the stuff $cientology spouts, and after a casual glance at a few articles on your link I'm frankly astonished at the absurdity of it all.

I like what Mr. Randi has to say about it in Swift:
Think of it: Scientologists – including intellectual giants like Tom Cruise, Chick Corea, Greta van Susteren, Isaac Hayes, Kirstie Alley, Lisa Marie Presley, and John Travolta – believe that they have the abilities to fly by mental power, to kill people with thoughts, and to move objects with will-power alone, and that science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard is/was the antichrist. They also believe Hubbard’s fantastic version of history – that 75 million years ago, Xenu, the dictator of an extragalactic civilization, was about to be deposed from power, and devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. Using souped-up versions of DC8-like aircraft (?) he brought billions of his people to Teegeeack – as Earth was then known, we’re told – cleverly paralyzed them, lowered them into Earth’s volcanoes along with hydrogen bombs, and detonated the whole mess. Only a few of these aliens’ physical bodies, said Hubbard, survived, but the “essences” – souls – of all this vast crowd remained behind after vaporization, and these inhabit people in modern times, causing them spiritual damage. That’s what Scientology saves us from, folks.

Don’t look at me! That was Hubbard’s idea! It’s almost as mad as those ideas of virgin birth, immortality, resurrection, transubstantiation, angels, a 6,000-year-old Earth, and demons….
 
DOC,
If you come in here claiming that Scientology is a bit..off, I'm afraid that I'll have to agree with you. And you won't even have to link to a source.

Um...I forgot to insult you, so please take this line in an insulting manner. Gotta keep up appearances, right?

ETA: This is not to say that I'm in FAVOR of them being banned. Yes, they, in my mind, bilk people out of their hard earned cash, but so does every other religion. I think it's a dangerous precedent to start banning organizations on the basis of their belief. Seeing as it's Germany, and not the US, I'll have very little voice in the matter.
 
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DOC,
If you come in here claiming that Scientology is a bit..off, I'm afraid that I'll have to agree with you. And you won't even have to link to a source.

Um...I forgot to insult you, so please take this line in an insulting manner. Gotta keep up appearances, right?

ETA: This is not to say that I'm in FAVOR of them being banned. Yes, they, in my mind, bilk people out of their hard earned cash, but so does every other religion. I think it's a dangerous precedent to start banning organizations on the basis of their belief. Seeing as it's Germany, and not the US, I'll have very little voice in the matter.
There are important differences in the way Scientology goes after people who speak out against the cult, harasses former members, and maintains strict security about their "scriptures". I know of no other religion which does any of these to the degree that Scientology does, let alone all three!
 
The debate in Germany to have Scientology banned is not new at all. It has absolutely nothing to do with their beliefs and everything to do with whether they are
a) a threat to the stability of the democracy/republic or
b) intend to attack the democracy/republic or
c) are a criminal organisation

Believing in volcano aliens and taking money from your followers is legal, though.
 
There are important differences in the way Scientology goes after people who speak out against the cult, harasses former members, and maintains strict security about their "scriptures". I know of no other religion which does any of these to the degree that Scientology does, let alone all three!

True. However, it should be those behaviors that are addressed, rather than an outright ban.
 
True. However, it should be those behaviors that are addressed, rather than an outright ban.

If those behaviours are an integral part of the organisation and what it stands for - as opposed to actions of individuals that are not supported by the organisation - then I see no harm in banning the organisation as a whole, no matter how much it insists on calling itself a religion.
 
True. However, it should be those behaviors that are addressed, rather than an outright ban.

why? if it is the organisation which promotes them. remember the freezoners aren't facing a ban, so it is the actions of a criminal organisation which re being targeted, and not the beliefs.
 
I strongly disagree with banning any religion. There are many harmful organizations in the US who call themselves "Christians" and make millions off of hardworking people. Unfortunately, we can't just strong arm them out of existence.

People who think this way are even worse than Scientologists.
 
Except that it isn't a religion. It's an extortion racket masquerading as a religion on the grounds that that makes it immune to the usual laws.
 
Except that it isn't a religion. It's an extortion racket masquerading as a religion on the grounds that that makes it immune to the usual laws.

And this is different from religions.....how? :)
 
Except that it isn't a religion. It's an extortion racket masquerading as a religion on the grounds that that makes it immune to the usual laws.

What Claus said.

Also, what does it matter if it's a religion? Or calls itself one?

This is about an organisation, and it doesn't matter if it's a "religion", a "company" or a "political party", or something else, or if the label is justified or not.

It is about what that organisation *does*. And it might sometimes turn out that what an organisation does is simply not legal.

So: If Scientology should be outlawed, all its property and accounts seized and every current member is imprisoned for life everyone else would still be perfectly free to belief in the same silly ideas, worship the same imaginary aliens and do so publicly, in an organized form with others.

Nobody is outlawing a "religion".
 
I strongly disagree with banning any religion. There are many harmful organizations in the US who call themselves "Christians" and make millions off of hardworking people. Unfortunately, we can't just strong arm them out of existence.

People who think this way are even worse than Scientologists.

unless of course, its your kids they drag in........

As for the strong arm tactics I think that would send a clear message to other cults....not that i'm sure exactly of the method one would employ, if any.......

but making them illegal as a religion is a good start..and make them pay hefty taxes .....or this ..and IMHO a good place to start, considering the utter nonsense they are peddling........sometimes there is a limit to what is classed as "religious freedom" when its as misleading as these guys are.......

Hubbard formalized his theories into a religion in order to obtain tax-exempt status and freedom from governmental interference for some of his organizations
from
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/scientol.htm
and
In 1967, the Church of Scientology of California was stripped of its tax-exempt status by the IRS (deeming Scientology a for-profit business that enriched church officials), an action the church considered unlawful and thus ignored. (The church also replied with more than 2,000 lawsuits against the IRS.) The IRS, in turn, undertook a mammoth audit of the church for the years 1970 through 1974. A federal court ruled in 1971 that Hubbard's medical claims were bogus and that E-meter auditing could no longer be called a scientific treatment.
......so its not like they have a clean record is it?
 
It is about what that organisation *does*. And it might sometimes turn out that what an organisation does is simply not legal.

Agreed. And if this is the case, then round up the leaders and prosecute them for the laws they have broken. I have absolutely no problem with that.

That's not what I'm seeing with the proposed bans in France and Germany, though. It seems that in both those countries, there is a list of state sanctioned religions that enjoy special privileges (tax breaks?) and Scientology might be stricken from the list.

Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but this system strikes me as being extremely backward. No religion should enjoy special privileges (or suffer special sanctions) under a country's constitution. I see no evidence in the linked articles that the Scientologists have broken any laws- it seems that they are disliked by certain politicians, which is apparently enough to call for a ban.

I really hate taking the Scientologists' side in all this. I'm going to take a shower now.
 
There are important differences in the way Scientology goes after people who speak out against the cult, harasses former members, and maintains strict security about their "scriptures". I know of no other religion which does any of these to the degree that Scientology does, let alone all three!

Islam for 2 out of 3.
 
That's not what I'm seeing with the proposed bans in France and Germany, though. It seems that in both those countries, there is a list of state sanctioned religions that enjoy special privileges (tax breaks?) and Scientology might be stricken from the list.

From the BBC site:
"Germany's federal and state interior ministers have declared the Church of Scientology unconstitutional,"

"Scientology is not recognised as a religion in Germany."

So I think you are quite wrong in your interpretation.

Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but this system strikes me as being extremely backward. No religion should enjoy special privileges (or suffer special sanctions) under a country's constitution.

I couldn't agree more.

I see no evidence in the linked articles that the Scientologists have broken any laws- it seems that they are disliked by certain politicians, which is apparently enough to call for a ban.

They have asked "Germany's domestic intelligence agency" to comment. I assume this is the "agency for the protection of the constitution" who have been observing the COS (on and off, quite possibly) over the years.

I really hate taking the Scientologists' side in all this. I'm going to take a shower now.

You might not have to.

I agree that the system wrt "official religions" in Germany is quite uncalled for - but the SOC has never had that status. I also agree that it looks like the motives of the ministers to call for a ban look dubious. But I am quite certain that if it comes to a an it will have nothing to do with "religion" and all with criminal behaviour.
 

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