• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Generic Fiorina Thread

sunmaster14 said:
Yes, Hillary kept raising money for her campaign fund while she was Secretary of State of the United States. What an outstanding public servant!
Click to expand...

What, specifically, is the problem with this ?

And have you taken L. Graham, T. Cruz, J. Mccain, etc to task for this, as I assume they have the same sort of problem ?
 
sunmaster14 said:
From your Daily Beast reference (my emphasis added):
Seems eminently reasonable to me. What she did at the end of the campaign was equivalent to debtor-in-possession (i.e. DIP) financing. The trade creditors and employees were quite likely better off as a result of her lending the money, even with a priority claim to be paid back, because it gave the campaign a better chance of winning and of raising more money from donors in the final weeks.
Click to expand...

Did the people who went to work for her -- in many cases presumably either leaving other jobs or forgoing other opportunities -- know that they would have to fight for the paychecks? Did vendors know that the entity contracting for their services didn't feel an obligation to pay? Or should everybody just have taken it for granted that contracts wouldn't be honored?
 
TheL8Elvis said:
What, specifically, is the problem with this ?

And have you taken L. Graham, T. Cruz, J. Mccain, etc to task for this, as I assume they have the same sort of problem ?
Click to expand...

When you're in Congress, you have to campaign for reelection periodically. That comes with the job. Secretaries of State don't need to be reelected. I don't think they should spend any of their time raising campaign funds from donors, and certainly not from foreign donors to one's charity cum slush fund.
 
Bob001 said:
Did the people who went to work for her -- in many cases presumably either leaving other jobs or forgoing other opportunities -- know that they would have to fight for the paychecks? Did vendors know that the entity contracting for their services didn't feel an obligation to pay? Or should everybody just have taken it for granted that contracts wouldn't be honored?
Click to expand...

People don't work for campaigns primarily, or even secondarily, for the pay. They are exchanging their labor for the opportunity of acquiring some political spoils that normally accrue to a successful campaign. It's like working for an internet startup for a low wage and lots of stock options. If the startup is successful, you'll be set for life. If the startup goes under, you've exchanged several years of your life for low pay and maybe will even miss out on some promised benefits, including the last paycheck. I think most people are savvy enough to know the risk that they're taking. If they want to whine about losing, that's their right, but there's no reason we should have to indulge it.
 
sunmaster14 said:
When you're in Congress, you have to campaign for reelection periodically. That comes with the job. Secretaries of State don't need to be reelected. I don't think they should spend any of their time raising campaign funds from donors, and certainly not from foreign donors to one's charity cum slush fund.
Click to expand...

Hillary: Worked to pay off her campaign debt despite having a high-stress, full-time-and-then-some job.

Carly: Only paid campaign debts owed to her personally, didn't bother trying despite the fact that she wasn't working a full-time gig anywhere since being run out of HP.

And somehow, in your world, Carly comes off looking better as a result.


This is why people give a hearty belly laugh when conservatives claim to be for fiscal responsibility.
 
Cleon said:
Hillary: Worked to pay off her campaign debt despite having a high-stress, full-time-and-then-some job.
Click to expand...

She monetized the substantial political power gifted to her by Obama at the expense of the country. That's not what I would call "working." Some less charitable than I might even call it corruption.
 
sunmaster14 said:
A loan (probably a zero-interest one at that) will be senior in priority to trade liabilities. In any case, it's unclear from the article if Fiorina's campaign paid her loan back in full, or only in part. I don't trust the WaPo to report that kind of detail accurately in a hit piece.

Also, I found this tidbit interesting (emphasis added):



That sounded like quite a lot of money to me for bulk mailings. In fact, it seems to be. From this link, I calculate $13,506.89 all-in (including the cost of the mailing list and the actual first class mailing charge) for a large coated, brochure (8.5"x14"), with full color on both sides. And the price Mr. Seaton charged was 5 years ago (during a recession by the way). No doubt there was a little padding in the price to account for the credit risk, which is known to all to be terrible for a losing campaign.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea what kind of artwork or adjustments were required? Have you ever seen A Carly Fiorina Production, like the ridiculously over-produced speech at the State GOP convention? There are multiple factors that determine the price of producing and distributing a direct mailer, not the least of which is the "list" which totals $000.00 in your calculation because they get their list from public sources. A candidate wants a targeted mailing list. Those cost.

This is a ridiculous defense. You'll be happy to know that in an effort to compare herself with Hillary, Carly is seeing a vast left wing conspiracy out there....

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...defends-late-payments-2010-senate-bid-n438901
 
sunmaster14 said:
That's a completely ridiculous attack. Losing campaigns always have unpaid debts. ...
Click to expand...
Word is though, that she managed to pay herself a million dollars.

How Carly Fiorina Screwed Her Campaign Staff—and Paid Herself First

I didn't think it was legal but apparently it's legal to call the money you put into your campaign a loan, that way you can get it back from the donations.

Strike that, I see it is normal practice to loan your own campaign millions.
But a review of Federal Election Commission records by The Daily Beast shows that Fiorina first paid herself back for more than $1.25 million in personal loans she made to the campaign, including a $1 million check on the day before Election Day. That check set the campaign back so far it was impossible to pay staff and vendors what they were owed for years.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Word is though, that she managed to pay herself a million dollars.

How Carly Fiorina Screwed Her Campaign Staff—and Paid Herself First

I didn't think it was legal but apparently it's legal to call the money you put into your campaign a loan, that way you can get it back from the donations.

Strike that, I see it is normal practice to loan your own campaign millions.
Click to expand...

And, like Hillary, Fiorina has cleared her debt.... effective January of this year. "Fiscal Responsibility", ya know. Except that Billary cleared up 25 million that they really didn't have in 2008. Carly has a net worth of 60 million and she hid behind the incorporated campaign for five years and avoided paying debtors a piddly half-a-million. Even her allies say she just sorta lost track of things (e.g. just didn't care, if you ask me).
 
Foolmewunz said:
Do you have any idea what kind of artwork or adjustments were required? Have you ever seen A Carly Fiorina Production, like the ridiculously over-produced speech at the State GOP convention? There are multiple factors that determine the price of producing and distributing a direct mailer, not the least of which is the "list" which totals $000.00 in your calculation because they get their list from public sources. A candidate wants a targeted mailing list. Those cost.
Click to expand...

First of all, my calculation included charges for the mailing list. Second, the guy in question is a printer. He's not going to be responsible for acquiring a mailing list of persuadable voters or Republicans. The campaign would have already acquired that from other sources.

This is a ridiculous defense. You'll be happy to know that in an effort to compare herself with Hillary, Carly is seeing a vast left wing conspiracy out there....

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...defends-late-payments-2010-senate-bid-n438901
Click to expand...

Well, I do have to say that that article is ridiculously biased. Nowhere in there does it say that the $1 million loan the campaign paid back to Carly was made in the final weeks to fund an advertising blitz (which would presumably raise hopes for her election and lead to more donations). It is quite possible, even likely, that her zero-interest loan actually led to less campaign debt at the end, rather than more. This concept is lost on people who have no experience with finance, let alone campaign finance.

Carly still spent $7 million of her own money on her campaign, and all of that was paid out to staffers and overpriced vendors, presumably. I think, on the whole, she did a good thing for them. She gave them work and a chance (if successful) of being part of a rising political star's posse.

I am perfectly willing to criticize Carly. In fact, I'm starting to think for completely different reasons that she would make a poor President (basically, I don't think she responds to constructive criticism well). But not paying back campaign debts out of your own pocket is a big nothing-burger. It's really par for the course. She cleared the decks earlier this year because she was starting a new campaign. Her campaign's creditors should be grateful that she still had enough gumption to try again. Their previous bet on her has paid off finally.
 
Last edited:
Foolmewunz said:
And, like Hillary, Fiorina has cleared her debt.... effective January of this year. "Fiscal Responsibility", ya know. Except that Billary cleared up 25 million that they really didn't have in 2008.
Click to expand...

There's no question that Billary could have paid $25 million out of their own pocket easily. Even if they didn't have the cash on hand (which I suspect they did), they could have easily borrowed it. The earning power of both of them is so vast that almost any bank or hedge fund would lend them that kind of money unsecured.
 
Having declared all of her loans during the primary as a loss, Fiorina paid herself back in full for loans she made in the general election, using cash on hand to repay herself $250,000 two weeks before the election and $1 million on the day before Election Day.
Click to expand...

Did this gain her a tax benefit that year?
 
At a recent town hall in New Hampshire, Carly Fiorina explained that her 30+ year old bachelor's degree in medieval history and philosophy will help her deal with ISIS.

“Finally my degree in medieval history and philosophy has come in handy,” Fiorina said Sunday night, “because what ISIS wants to do is drive us back to the Middle Ages, literally.”

Pressed to explain how her bachelor’s degree in medieval history will help her in dealing with ISIS, Fiorina listed off a number of brutal techniques that ISIS is using that were common in medieval times and said it is not an exaggeration to say that the group is operating under a mentality based in the Middle Ages.
Click to expand...


Of course, she neglected to mention that the techniques were used by medieval Christians.
I guess we can look forward to another Crusade?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom