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Generic Fiorina Thread

varwoche

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varwoche
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Fiorina was quite impressive in the debate. But it turns out that some of her big moments were based on misinformation*.

Her claims about the Planned Parenthood video were false. And it turns out that her claim that 307,000 veterans died while awaiting VA benefits is dubious at best.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...307000-veterans-died-waiting-for-health-care/

* I give her the benefit of the doubt that she was duped concerning the PP video. But now that she's been confronted with the truth, including by Chris Wallace on Fox News, and she persists with the misinformation, it's now appropriate to call this a lie.
 
varwoche said:
Fiorina was quite impressive in the debate. But it turns out that some of her big moments were based on misinformation*.

Her claims about the Planned Parenthood video were false. And it turns out that her claim that 307,000 veterans died while awaiting VA benefits is dubious at best.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...307000-veterans-died-waiting-for-health-care/

* I give her the benefit of the doubt that she was duped concerning the PP video. But now that she's been confronted with the truth, including by Chris Wallace on Fox News, and she persists with the misinformation, it's now appropriate to call this a lie.
Click to expand...

I figured the beating heart and harvesting brains claim was a lie when she said it, because she was actually giving testimony about a murder of which she had apparent inside knowledge. I was wondering why she hadn't called the police yet.:rolleyes:
 
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varwoche said:
Fiorina was quite impressive in the debate. But it turns out that some of her big moments were based on misinformation*.

Her claims about the Planned Parenthood video were false.
Click to expand...

Not false. Technically true actually, if you read her words carefully. I'll admit that it left a misleading impression however.

And it turns out that her claim that 307,000 veterans died while awaiting VA benefits is dubious at best.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...307000-veterans-died-waiting-for-health-care/
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous that such a claim should be given two Pinocchios, let alone almost three. Her number was reported widely in the media. And although it was based on incomplete or misconstrued information, it may still be true.
 
It is much easier to win a debate if facts and reason aren't a factor in those debates.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Not false. Technically true actually, if you read her words carefully. I'll admit that it left a misleading impression however.....
Click to expand...
She claimed the video she saw was of an abortion performed at Planned Parenthood and people discussed keeping a fetus alive to harvest the brain.

That was a lie. And given the supposed video she posted on her website, she continued to propagate the lie that it was a video of something that happened at PP.

Just because someone else started a lie, under these circumstances when you've been shown it was a lie, you are a liar as soon as you promote the thing you know was a lie.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
She claimed the video she saw was of an abortion performed at Planned Parenthood and people discussed keeping a fetus alive to harvest the brain.

That was a lie. And given the supposed video she posted on her website, she continued to propagate the lie that it was a video of something that happened at PP.

Just because someone else started a lie, under these circumstances when you've been shown it was a lie, you are a liar as soon as you promote the thing you know was a lie.
Click to expand...

I challenge you to find her exact words during the debate and pick them apart and show me where she lied. I dare ya.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I challenge you to find her exact words during the debate and pick them apart and show me where she lied. I dare ya.
Click to expand...

"As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it's heart beating, it's legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."​

I haven't watched the alleged tape. Is there really someone saying "we have to keep it alive to harvest the brain"?

Does anyone know why brain tissue has to be harvested from a living being?


ETA
Or did I miss the point of Sunmaster14's post? Was it just a I-dare-ya joke to mock Fiorina.
 
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Ladewig said:
"As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it's heart beating, it's legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."​

I haven't watched the alleged tape. Is there really someone saying "we have to keep it alive to harvest the brain"?

Does anyone know why brain tissue has to be harvested from a living being?


ETA
Or did I miss the point of Sunmaster14's post? Was it just a I-dare-ya joke to mock Fiorina.
Click to expand...

The video in question seems to be this one (watch from 5:20 to 6:30 or so):



The witness being interviewed didn't say "we have to keep it alive to harvest the brain" but did say that the person in charge said that "this fetus is intact enough that we can procure a lot from it. We're going to procure the brain."

Of course I agree that the video is misleading. The fetus was obviously not the same one that the witness is talking about, nor did it even remotely look the same. Nor is it even clear that she is talking about what happened at Planned Parenthood. But my point is that Fiorina watched the video, and she was talking, probably sincerely, about the emotions they stirred in her. She got enough right about the video that I would argue she didn't even confabulate, let alone lie. Whether or not the video itself is a lie is a whole other issue.
 
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So her errors are okay because she felt good and right about them?
 
sunmaster14 said:
The video in question seems to be this one (watch from 5:20 to 6:30 or so):



The witness being interviewed didn't say "we have to keep it alive to harvest the brain" but did say that the person in charge said that "this fetus is intact enough that we can procure a lot from it. We're going to procure the brain."

Of course I agree that the video is misleading. The fetus was obviously not the same one that the witness is talking about, nor did it even remotely look the same. Nor is it even clear that she is talking about what happened at Planned Parenthood. But my point is that Fiorina watched the video, and she was talking, probably sincerely, about the emotions they stirred in her. She got enough right about the video that I would argue she didn't even confabulate, let alone lie. Whether or not the video itself is a lie is a whole other issue.
Click to expand...
Fine, we can excuse her for what she said at the debate.

However, she has since been informed that the PP video does not contain what she claimed, but she persists with the BS. So now, she is lying.
 
sunmaster14 said:
The witness being interviewed didn't say "we have to keep it alive to harvest the brain" but did say that the person in charge said that "this fetus is intact enough that we can procure a lot from it. We're going to procure the brain."
Click to expand...

So then is her statement a lie? A fib? Hyperbole? Paraphrasing? Irrelevant? Something else?
 
There's a whole thread here somewhere about her video lies. She seems to have seen a video in which audio from a person claiming to have seen PP harvesting brains was combined with an unrelated video from an unknown source. And then doubled down, because she's never been wrong about anything in her whole life.

The latter is what I call "CEO syndrome", although it's far from limited to the business community. It's an inability to ever admit any mistake of any kind. GW Bush once held a spectacular press conference in which he was unable to think of any mistake he'd made in his entire life. Bill Clinton was almost as bad. The same phenomenon is common in high-up folks in the military, religion, and non-profits.
 
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