General UK politics

[P.J. Denyer]

Almost all NHS staff will have a pay increase of 2-3% above inflation (and will do most years) and a final salary pension scheme.

Those in the private sector are much more likely to be furloughed or lose their jobs.

Even if we take this as fact without taking into account how much public sector pensions have been depreciated, why is the problem that they get them rather than that the rest of us, who might once have expected similar, don't?

 

[GlennB]

Aber is working on the old, long gone, idea that all NHS staff have an automatic move up their pay band, the old annual increment. This has not been a given for all staff some time and the systems in place around this are routinely manipulated by management or made the subject of "local deals", which were never intended to be part of national NHS pay arrangements, but have been allowed to sneak in by the DoH, especially since 2010, and frequently are put in place without full discussion with staff (this certainly happened in 2 major acute trusts round here - source: one of the peoole who paid the staff of those trusts while working for one of them, who just happens to be through in the next room).

Thanks for that

 

[Aber]

Even if we take this as fact without taking into account how much public sector pensions have been depreciated, why is the problem that they get them rather than that the rest of us, who might once have expected similar, don't?

Because of how much they cost. I'm involved in a third sector organisation where pension contributions are now 20%+ of salaries for those who were TUPE'd across from the public sector.

Full disclosure - I'm a member of an LGPS pension scheme where IIRC I can take full pension if my job is restructured after the age of 55.

 

[Darat]

^{Because of how much they cost.} I'm involved in a third sector organisation where pension contributions are now 20%+ of salaries for those who were TUPE'd across from the public sector.

Full disclosure - I'm a member of an LGPS pension scheme where IIRC I can take full pension if my job is restructured after the age of 55.

The “solution” to that is to make all employers make adequate payments into pension schemes, that we’ve let the private sector get away with externalising their costs isn’t a reason for the public service to lose their pension schemes. (Albeit that has already happened, look at the prison service for an example of how a good pension has been removed.)

I’ve always held that whilst there is a deficit in a company’s pension scheme no profit can be taken out via dividends or by officers of the company. And if a company can’t afford the pension scheme then it is obviously an unprofitable company and shouldn’t be supported by the tax payers.

 

[gypsyjackson]

Aber is working on the old, long gone, idea that all NHS staff have an automatic move up their pay band, the old annual increment. This has not been a given for all staff some time and the systems in place around this are routinely manipulated by management or made the subject of "local deals", which were never intended to be part of national NHS pay arrangements, but have been allowed to sneak in by the DoH, especially since 2010, and frequently are put in place without full discussion with staff (this certainly happened in 2 major acute trusts round here - source: one of the peoole who paid the staff of those trusts while working for one of them, who just happens to be through in the next room).

Yeah, if it’s anything like Defra, that went around 2009. We had zero pay rise for 2 years, then 1% in 2011, 2012, and 2013. So by that point, you’d have had a 3.03% pay increase over what you were getting in 2008. In 2014 they brought in a new system which meant you got 1% if you were a strong performer, 0.5 for adequate, and 0 if on performance management measures. No increment for a long, long time.

There was once a milestone system by which if you had been in the same grade for a certain number of years you got a pay rise bigger than the norm, but I never got close, and I think that went around the same time (2009). I was lucky in that I got a job where I had an allowance to compensate for not being paid overtime, then another where I was posted overseas (it still cost me money, even with some allowances, due to a stingy COLA rate, but that’s a different story).

 

[Andy_Ross]

Asylum seekers were housed in cramped and filthy conditions at a military barracks, inspectors have said.

Some of the most vulnerable people were living in a "decrepit" block unfit for habitation at Kent's Napier Barracks.

The Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons also visited Penally Camp in Pembrokeshire. They said both sites were "run-down".

The Home Office said it had instructed service providers to make improvements.

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

 

[gypsyjackson]

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

Does she ever describe them as “people”?

 

[Darat]

Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Why would she?

 

[The Don]

Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Why would she?

Exactly ! They can't vote, and if they eventually become able to do so, they're unlikely to vote Conservative

 

[Andy_Ross]

Pah - only Britain counts, you’ll best remember your place now we are no longer held down by the EU, otherwise we might send an aircraft carrier* to remind you of your place!


*If you could hold on a decade so we can get some planes

They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

 

[Wudang]

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

I'm sure I remember press reports of the "scandal" of the state of much armed services accomodation. Maybe a few decades ago.

 

[The Don]

They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

Are we going to be getting some old Harriers from the USMC ?

edited to add.....

Apparently not, it's a new plane called the Tempest.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-reportedly-to-cut-f-35b-order-by-65-percent/

An order for 90 more F-35 Lightning combat jets is to be cancelled in favour of the Tempest fighter, built in Lancashire,

 

[Andy_Ross]

That the barracks had previously been used by 'brave soldiers and army personnel' in the past says nothing about their suitability or condition now.
It doesn't even say anything about their condition when they were used to house 'brave soldiers and army personnel'.
There is a reason they were abandoned, parts of the site hadn't been used for decades.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest

 

[Darat]

That the barracks had previously been used by 'brave soldiers and army personnel' in the past says nothing about their suitability or condition now.
It doesn't even say anything about their condition when they were used to house 'brave soldiers and army personnel'.
There is a reason they were abandoned, parts of the site hadn't been used for decades.

Actually I think it is quite a good idea of the HS, it will help acclimatise them to the conditions they can expect in a post-Brexit UK!

 

[The Don]

Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest

Well if there's one thing that the MOD is brilliant at, it's delivering big programmes on budget and ahead of schedule.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

And has the advantage of making them less dependant on the US, which has conclusively proven it cannot be trusted internationally.

 

[Andy_Ross]

And has the advantage of making them less dependant on the US, which has conclusively proven it cannot be trusted internationally.

It will be a huge money pit that is unreliable, over complicated and under performs.

There is criticism of the F-35 for cost. That will be nothing compared to this.
Look at the typhoon and before that the Tornado.
Why do we expect this new aircraft with it's 'energy weapon, ai, pilotless drone capability and everything else they could think of rammed in to it will be any better?
We will be able to afford about five of them.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Nimrod AEW is another good example.
Billions sunk init and it never worked.
It's taken us 35 years to sort out L85 Rifle and we had to get H&K to do that.
It started off in the late 40s as the EM-1 a good bullpup design that was liked by those that tested it.
This was abandoned and a bullpup conversion done to an AR-18 was made to save costs and development .
It was rushed in to service without proper development in a cost cutting form to boost the value of the Royal Small Arms Factory which the govt wanted to privatise.
It was a disaster from the start and in 2000 was given to H&K to fix. They virtually rebuilt it.
In the end it has cost far more money than throwing it away and buying M-16s or Steyrs or something from H&K.

 

[catsmate]

Asylum seekers were housed in cramped and filthy conditions at a military barracks, inspectors have said.

Some of the most vulnerable people were living in a "decrepit" block unfit for habitation at Kent's Napier Barracks.

The Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons also visited Penally Camp in Pembrokeshire. They said both sites were "run-down".

The Home Office said it had instructed service providers to make improvements.

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

Has she ever visited, let alone lived, in a UK military facility? Even a well maintained one?