General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[bikerdruid]

Are you serious?

I personally think that argument is so kooky it's gotta be a parody of the loony-leftist point of view, but on the chance you mean it sincerely, then you should be an ardent Zionist. They have a fetish about planting trees in Israel, either going there to do it personally or paying to have it done.

http://www.treesfortheholyland.com/index.html

http://treestoisrael.org/

http://www.jnf.org/work-we-do/our-projects/forestry-ecology/

Millions of trees. Lots of new sylvan friends and neighbors for you to love, and precious lungs for our planet earth.

i dealt with that in this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6623662&postcount=1
where i protested the demolishing of palestian homes to plant trees.

also, no amount of tree-planting can make up for israeli abuse of the palestinian people.

 

[Thunder]

You know, the failure of the peace talks and America's veto of this most recent UNSC resolution on the settlements, is really killing my faith in the 2-state solution.

I mean, what's the point? does it really have any chance of getting actually negotiated, let alone supported by both populations and even implemented?

a 2-state solution would requiring hundreds of thousands of Israelis being sent home to Israel, since they certainly would refuse Palestinian citizenship. this would most likely mean gun battles and maybe even a low-level civil war.

maybe its just better to support one state...where no one has to move anywhere.

 

[Thunder]

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=208959

The annexation of the West Bank settlements, and with it much of the West Bank, has begun.

 

[boyntonstu]

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=208959

The annexation of the West Bank settlements, and with it much of the West Bank, has begun.

Great!

Ask the young Arabs or Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Iran, Jordan, Bahrain, Libya etc. if their Arab dictators gives them more opportunities to lead productive lives than Israel offers its Arab citizens.


How many Arab/Muslim protesters were arrested or killed by their governments in the last 2 weeks?

 

[Mycroft]

i dealt with that in this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6623662&postcount=1
where i protested the demolishing of palestian homes to plant trees.

also, no amount of tree-planting can make up for israeli abuse of the palestinian people.

So...nailed on one topic you change to another. Typical.

So let's nail you on this new topic too. First, let's link to the entire thread so people can see how this didn't fly last time either.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6623662#post6623662

Second, the tree planting campaign has been going on for almost a hundred years now, and it doesn't require anyone lose their homes for it. It is a separate issue from the dispute between the state of Israel and the Bedouin Arabs that keep trying to rebuild Al-Araqib, which continues to this day.

 

[bit_pattern]

Great!

Ask the young Arabs or Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Iran, Jordan, Bahrain, Libya etc. if their Arab dictators gives them more opportunities to lead productive lives than Israel offers its Arab citizens.


How many Arab/Muslim protesters were arrested or killed by their governments in the last 2 weeks?

So you support a one state solution?

Great!

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

your 'humour' is only out compassed by your callousness.
(your lack of humanity is showing.)

You take upon yourself the name of a brutal tyrant who massacred four and a half million people during his reign of terror and you call me "callous"?

Trees don't have brain stems or nervous systems. They don't feel anything at their own deaths or the deaths of their fellow trees (trees are ___holes that way). So why should I?

As the renowned philosopher Jonathan Handey once said; "If trees could scream, would be be so cavalier about cutting them down?We would if they screamed all day for no apparent reason".

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

1. it was built purely due to the religious needs of very religious Cohanim.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the Cohanim are the majority users or even the only users of the new road. It only matters that there will be sufficient traffic on the new road to justify it's construction.

The road is just a road. It's not a church or a synagogue. The road doesn't provide for their religious needs. The church does. The road is just how they get there.

The Cohanim are tax paying citizens. They have the right to ask the state to use their taxes to create the necessary infrastructure to allow them to get from point A to point B. It is not the place of the state to consider why they want to get to point B. Their only consideration should be wether enough people are asking for the road to indicate that it will be sufficiently used once constructed to justify the cost. You seek to deny them this right solely because of their religious beliefs. You want to tell members of the public that they can't have something because of their religion. This is the extreeme opposite of seperation of church and state. This isn't about the Cohanim, it's about your religious bigotry.

There is no evidence there was any general transportation need for the new road.

The Conahim are part of the general public.

2. very old and lovely trees were killed to build these unneccessary, special-interest roads.

Hundreds of old and lovely trees are cut down every day so that we can wipe our asses.

And the roads are necessitated by the by the intent of the citizenry to use it once constructed.

take that up with Israel Antabi, the municipality's deputy director general and head of engineering and projects, who himself called them "halakhic roads".

So what?

Does the road look anything like this?

If it doesn't, then it's not a halakhic road. The road may be designed to facilitate the Cohanim and their observances. But unless the state is prohibiting it's use by anyone but the Cohanim, then it isn't a Cohanim road.

...and publicly-owned trees should not be cut down for religious perposes either. those trees belong to all the citizens of Israel.

Please show the official documents showing legal ownership of the trees in question as "all the citizens of Israel".

 

[Thunder]

Irrelevant.

according to who? oh...according to you.

The road is just a road. It's not a church or a synagogue. The road doesn't provide for their religious needs. The church does. The road is just how they get there.

I'm sorry, where in the article does it state that this road was being built to fasciliate the Cohanim being able to get to Shul? Please point to this very important detail that I amazingly missed. Now, if the road is just a road, then why is it being built specifically for the needs of the Cohanim? Why did the municipal official himself call it a "halakhic road"? Are you now accusing him of being a liar?

The Cohanim are tax paying citizens. They have the right to ask the state to use their taxes to create the necessary infrastructure to allow them to get from point A to point B. It is not the place of the state to consider why they want to get to point B. This isn't about the Cohanim, it's about your religious bigotry.

So if a powerful religious interest group requests a stop sign, bike lane, traffic circle, greenstreet, red-light camera, etc etc....PURELY due to religious reasons and not having ANYTHING to do with pure general transportation needs, a municipality has NO right to take that into consideration when they decide if they will indeed grant their request??? huh. wow. amazing stuff I am hearing here. Maybe your interpretation of the law works fine in a Islamic or Jewish state but certainly not in a secular democracy.

oh, and btw, disagreeing with Sword of Truth does not make one a bigot.

Please show the official documents showing legal ownership of the trees in question as "all the citizens of Israel".

I can only speak from experience, but in the USA trees on sidewalks belong to the municipality. Even if you planted that tree, after a few years it becomes the property of the town, village, city, etc etc. So yes, those trees belongs to all the citizens of Israel and they were cut down to provide for the religious needs of one special interest group.

 

[Thunder]

You take upon yourself the name of a brutal tyrant who massacred four and a half million people during his reign of terror and you call me "callous"?

he is commenting on your posts...while you comment on his member name.

....interesting.

 

[Thunder]

Great!

Ask the young Arabs or Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Iran, Jordan, Bahrain, Libya etc. if their Arab dictators gives them more opportunities to lead productive lives than Israel offers its Arab citizens.


How many Arab/Muslim protesters were arrested or killed by their governments in the last 2 weeks?

yep, perhaps it is indeed time to abandon the two-state solution...since it seems as possible as today as pigs flying and cows surfing the internet.

one nation for everyone. everyone gets to live wherever they like..between the river and the sea.

 

[WildCat]

Mr. T says "cut 'em down!"

 

[bikerdruid]

You take upon yourself the name of a brutal tyrant who massacred four and a half million people during his reign of terror and you call me "callous"?

huh??....my name is biker druid.

Trees don't have brain stems or nervous systems. They don't feel anything at their own deaths or the deaths of their fellow trees (trees are ___holes that way). So why should I?

[/I].

as a druid, i have a special relationship and reverence for trees.
and, really, i don't give a large rodent's hiney what you think of that.

and .....truly....your callousness is astounding.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm sorry, where in the article does it state that this road was being built to fasciliate the Cohanim being able to get to Shul? Please point to this very important detail that I amazingly missed.

You show me where it says in the article that the Cohanim are going to hold religious services in the middle of the road or where it says the roads use will be restricted to only the Cohanim.

So if a powerful religious interest group requests a stop sign, bike lane, traffic circle, greenstreet, red-light camera, etc etc....PURELY due to religious reasons and not having ANYTHING to do with pure general transportation needs,

Stopping you right there. Travelling to school, work, recreational sites, stores and shopping centres, for social pourposes and and travelling to church services are all general transportation needs.

oh, and btw, disagreeing with Sword of Truth does not make one a bigot.

Unless you also seek to deny people travelling to work, school, shopping the right to ask the state to provide and maintain infrastructure, then you are demanding the Cohanim be stripped of their rights soleley because of religion.

You sir, are a bigot.

I can only speak from experience, but in the USA trees on sidewalks belong to the municipality. Even if you planted that tree, after a few years it becomes the property of the town, village, city, etc etc. So yes, those trees belongs to all the citizens of Israel and they were cut down to provide for the religious needs of one special interest group.

Would you do us a favor and just pick one? It's getting confusing watching you say two different things in the same sentence.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

as a druid, i have a special relationship and reverence for trees.
and, really, i don't give a large rodent's hiney what you think of that.

and .....truly....your callousness is astounding.

"i was a trudeau youth at one time.
and a <name of a notorious obnoxious racist>ist-<name of a brutal tyrant who had a boner for firing squads>ist since the early 70's."


Your casual disregard for human victims of genocide is arguably worse.

 

[WildCat]

as a druid, i have a special relationship and reverence for trees.

I think you may have been in that video SoT posted...

Your relationship with the trees is no more impooirtant than anyone else's needs.

 

[Mycroft]

as a druid, i have a special relationship and reverence for trees.
and, really, i don't give a large rodent's hiney what you think of that.

and .....truly....your callousness is astounding.

Your religious beliefs are your own business, but as someone who apparently has deep religious beliefs, I find it odd that you don't show more understanding for other people's religious beliefs.

Also, your reverence for trees seems to be selective.

 

[Thunder]

Your religious beliefs are your own business, but as someone who apparently has deep religious beliefs, I find it odd that you don't show more understanding for other people's religious beliefs.

Also, your reverence for trees seems to be selective.

in a nation that respects the seperation betwen Church & State, public funds are NOT used to build roads just because some religious sect feels that they need it.

 

[Thunder]

You show me where it says in the article that the Cohanim are going to hold religious services in the middle of the road or where it says the roads use will be restricted to only the Cohanim.

there are already perfectly good roads for the Cohanim to drive to work, school shul, ect etc. what is wrong with these roads? it violated their chosen religious needs? not my problem and not the state's problem....at least not in a secular democracy.

Stopping you right there. Travelling to school, work, recreational sites, stores and shopping centres, for social pourposes and and travelling to church services are all general transportation needs.

again, what is the functional problem with the roads that already exist? do they have potholes? are they impassible? no.....these are perfectly good roads, and some Cohanim simply choose to not want to use them. that's their choice. why should taxpayers have to pay for a new road because one religious interest group doesn't like them?

Unless you also seek to deny people travelling to work, school, shopping the right to ask the state to provide and maintain infrastructure, then you are demanding the Cohanim be stripped of their rights soleley because of religion.

You sir, are a bigot.

some Cohanim refuse to use a road that is perfectly fine for motor vehicle use..simply for religious reasons. they want a new road built, simply for religious reasons. that's all fine..........let the Cohanim pay for a new road.

and no, disagreeing with Sword of Truth does not make one a bigot.

 

[mortimer]

in a nation that respects the seperation betwen Church & State, public funds are NOT used to build roads just because some religious sect feels that they need it.

What about crosswalks?