• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Clayton Moore said:
http://www.jpost.com
http://www.jta.org/
Connecticut Rabbi Joshua Hammerman
JDL


What do you think their mission statements are?
Click to expand...

JTA

"JTA is the definitive, trusted global source of breaking news, investigative reporting, in-depth analysis, opinion and features on current events and issues of interest to the Jewish people. An unaffiliated not-for-profit organization, we pride ourselves on our independence and integrity."

JDL

The mission of the Jewish Defense League is multifaceted–to serve as the premier Galut-based activism force in defense of Jews, Judaism and righteous non-Jews; to advocate, educate and inspire the Jewish people in such notable areas as authentic Torah Judaism, self-defense (including firearms ownership) and security; to vigorously oppose all manifestations of Jew-hatred.

So are you claiming the Jewish Daily Post and Rabbi Joshua Hammerman have "dedicated themselves to the awakening of the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Caucasian peoples as the true and only descendants of the Twelve Tribes of Israel?"

Or do you not have a point?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Misha – A Memoir Of The Holocaust Years
Elie Wiesel's memoir Night

The Fifth Diamond: The Story of Irene Weisberg Zisblatt

For info about Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war" published from 1948 to 1959:

Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe 559 pages
Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages
de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre 2,054 pages.


1986 Nobel Peace Prize winner Eli Wiesel's works:



<snip>
Click to expand...

I hope you are joking by listing Churchill, Ike and De Gaul for accounts on the holocaust when you yourself have claimed have never written or mentioned the Holocaust in their writings of WW2. Same for Elie, Zisblatt and Misha.

I'll assume you just simply forgot about that so I'll make my self clear. I would like a short list of books written by reputable historians, not memoirs, that outlines the details of the holocaust. What events led to it, why it happened, the methods used by the Nazis to murder Jews, when the last camp was liberated, etc.

Personal accounts and memoirs I can read at a later time.
 
CleverClogs82 said:
Hello everyone. I've been lurking in these forums, and mainly in this thread now for the better part of the week. I'm still on page 134 so far so I've got quite a bit of catching up to do.

Anyway, I have two questions for the people who deny the holocaust. And I do apologize if they've been asked already.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you are correct. *The holocaust was a hoax perpetuated by a secret society of Jews hell bent on taking over the world, how would that benefit you? *Besides bragging rights, how does it benefit you in any way that the holocaust was fake?

What would be conclusive proof, in your mind, that proves the historicity of the Holocaust? And if presented with said evidence, would you accept it or continue to deny it like every other piece of evidence other posters here have presented?

I would like an honest answer.
Click to expand...

Since you've replied to my second request, care to answer my first?
 
Originally Posted by CleverClogs82 View Post
Hello everyone. I've been lurking in these forums, and mainly in this thread now for the better part of the week. I'm still on page 134 so far so I've got quite a bit of catching up to do.

Anyway, I have two questions for the people who deny the holocaust. And I do apologize if they've been asked already.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you are correct. *The holocaust was a hoax perpetuated by a secret society of Jews hell bent on taking over the world, how would that benefit you? *Besides bragging rights, how does it benefit you in any way that the holocaust was fake?

What would be conclusive proof, in your mind, that proves the historicity of the Holocaust? And if presented with said evidence, would you accept it or continue to deny it like every other piece of evidence other posters here have presented?

I would like an honest answer.
Click to expand...


CleverClogs82 said:
Since you've replied to my second request, care to answer my first?
Click to expand...

It would only benefit the American way by bringing back honesty and integrity to America. It's image and the manner in which it comports itself.

It would take away the carte blanche provided to Zionists and neoconservatives whose primary loyalty is Israel first.



What would be conclusive proof, in your mind, that proves the historicity of the Holocaust? And if presented with said evidence, would you accept it or continue to deny it like every other piece of evidence other posters here have presented?
Click to expand...

Nothing. The straw(s) that broke the camel's back is beyond repair.
Lies and fabrications created/imprinted the 6 million Holocaust.
Nobel Peace Prize winner Eli Wiesel's Night is the centerpiece of the lies and fabrications.

Irene Weisberg Zisblatt, auther of The Fifth Diamond, told American school children lies about her Holocaust experience for over a decade.
http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=5521

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1G-DBpaPyM


http://removaloftattoo.co/holocaust-ilse-koch-wanted-my-skin-for-lampshades-irene-weisberg-zisblatt/

HOLOCAUST – “Ilse Koch Wanted My Skin For Lampshades!” (Irene Weisberg Zisblatt)
Click to expand...


Visit: holocaustdenier.com to watch Eric Hunt’s 2 hour film, ‘The Last Days of the Big Lie.’ This video is an excerpt from it. Irene Weisberg Zisblatt appeared in Steven Spielberg’s Holocaust documentary film “The Last Days.” The film’s tagline is “Everything You’re About To See Is True.” Here Irene tells how her soft skin was ideal material for Ilse Koch to make gloves and lampshades from. She narrowly escaped being turned into a specialty line of leather goods. Later Irene was subject to cruel experiments to remove her camp tattoo. They were successful; today she has no tattoo (or removal scars).
Click to expand...


FYI Irene Weisberg Zisblatt and The Fifth Diamond cannot be found in Wikipedia.



Again, the lies and fabrications created the Holocaust.
 
Last edited:
http://sites.google.com/site/spielbergshoax/home/zisblatt-fifth-diamond

Irene Weisberg Zisblatt came out on the Holocaust Promotion Scene in 1994, after a "fifty year silence" about her experience as a Jewish teenaged "Holocaust Survivor". Over her next fifteen years as a Holocaust Promoter, her stories would become more and more ridiculous, outrageous, scatological, racist, and impossible.
Click to expand...

Irene Zisblatt claims :
She escaped from inside a gas chamber, (1995 - Current)
She barely avoided having her unblemished skin turned into a lampshade, (1995 - Today)
Doctor Mengele removed her tattoo, (1995 (but not Dr. Mengele) - Today)
She was thrown over the electrified barbed wire at the camps after escaping the gas chamber, naked, onto a train to another camp (1995 - Today)
A Nazi nurse gave her a phony lethal injection, (1995 - Today)
She repeatedly swallowed and defecated four diamonds for almost a year and a half while an inmate of the German concentration camps. (1998 - Today)
She was Mengele's guinea pig, and survived several "experiments", including one to make her eyes blue. (1995 (but Mengele isn't mentioned) - Today)
Multiple claims of Nazis draining blood from Jews. (2008? - Today)
She claims she General Patton visited her at a hospital in Pilzen, Czechoslovakia, where he gave her his "scarf" and his four star "buttons" (2008 - Today)
Along with even more outrageous, racist lies. (1994 - Today)
Click to expand...
 
Clayton Moore said:
Again, the lies and fabrications created the Holocaust.
Click to expand...
.
And yet, the only unsupported lies documented here are your own.

You were specifically asked for works by historians, and supply a list of memoirs, none of which offers a comprehensive timeline.

But let's run with this: Who was it that first questioned the narrative in Zisblatt's book and when? Who was the first denier to do so, and when?

You claim the Holocaust was fabricated: by whom? And when? Specific names, dates and places, please: and *do* try to do better than Because! I! Said! So! to support it...

While you make up your answers, we're still waiting for you to point out a single lie here, despite your claim that that site was nothing but lies. You then tried to distract from your inability to do so by offering two other references from that site, but you're proof that they were lies amounts to "no amount of evidence will ever convince of ... "

So tell us, which historians have ever cited Zisblatt as historical source? In which schools has that book ever been taught as straight history?

And why can even "think" that your track record of posting lies, and self-admitted lack of having any evidence to support them, gives you any credibility at all?

Since all of your content boils down to "I have a passionate need to believe that Jews are bad" why not just post that repeatedly? At the least it would be honest...
.
 
Last edited:
"It would only benefit the American way by bringing back honesty and integrity to America. It's image and the manner in which it comports itself.

It would take away the carte blanche provided to Zionists and neoconservatives whose primary loyalty is Israel first."

I can only agree with bringing back honesty and integrity to America. But how we achieve that we definitely differ.

By your definition, what is the American way?
Identify who the Zionists and neoconseratives are that are given carte blanche.

So by your admission, if conclusive proof that the Nazi's gassed Jews like undoctored photographs of a doctor climbing up a ladder to administer Zyklon B, you would still deny it?

Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, was it you who mentioned their father serving in the military during WW2?

I do apologize for not directly quoting your post. I'm on my iPhone posting this and I really CBA to post correctly under it's limitations.
 
CleverClogs82 said:
To LemmeCaution, Nick Terry et al. Can you provide me a list of books thy chronicles the timeline of the holocaust? Books I can buy online, preferably.

My knowledge on the holocaust is limited to reading the diary of Anne Frank, Viktor Finkle's "Man's Search for Meaning" (he was an Austrian neurologist who was deported to Theresienstadt and acted as the camp psychiatrist) as well as what I learned from school.

My interest in WW2 was mainly in the causes leading up to the war as well as the war itself and not necessarily in the holocaust. I want to contribute to this thread but will wait until I have better knowledge of the subject.

Many thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Saul Friedlaender, The Years of Extermination (2007) covering 1939-1945 is a good start. It can also be found in a single volume with the preceding volume, but may lack notes as a result, or be abridged. It won a Pulitzer Prize, not least for its rather remarkable literary qualities, since it shifts perspectives across Europe and is written in an extremely laconic style without moralising. But it is not an 'encyclopedic' book which will tell you something about everything. The value of this book is how it integrates the Jewish and Nazi perspectives, how it details both Hitler's rants as well as the reactions to those rants recorded by Jews in their diaries written inside ghettos.

Peter Longerich, Holocaust (2010) is a single volume history of Nazi policy towards Jews from 1933-1945, and thus unlike Friedlaender does not integrate the Jewish perspective as thoroughly, and is a bit dry in places, but very well structured and clearly referenced, drawing on all the recent research, and clear on decision-making, timings, patterns, etc.

Christopher Browning, The Origins of the Final Solution (2004) covers the period from September 1939 to March 1942 in great detail, is very readable and very well researched. It is of course always important to grasp how things evolved and came about, and this phase is undoubtedly the most important in grasping why the Nazis decided to commit genocide.

These will get you started. They are general studies, and don't have individual chapters on different countries or different camps. If you are looking for anything more specific to complement something general, just ask.
 
TSR: "You were specifically asked for works by historians, and supply a list of memoirs, none of which offers a comprehensive timeline."

I thought it was strange that he would list De Gaul, Ike, and Churchill seeing as he denied they even mentioned the holocaust in their writings after the war. Secret agenda perhaps? I can't speak on Churchill or De Gaul, but Ike wrote this to General George Marshall:

"The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit [to Gotha] deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda'"

I cant link yet but you can find that in "Dear General: Eisenhower's Wartime Letters to Marshall" by Joseph Patrick Hobbs.
 
CleverClogs82 said:
TSR: "You were specifically asked for works by historians, and supply a list of memoirs, none of which offers a comprehensive timeline."

I thought it was strange that he would list De Gaul, Ike, and Churchill seeing as he denied they even mentioned the holocaust in their writings after the war. Secret agenda perhaps? I can't speak on Churchill or De Gaul, but Ike wrote this to General George Marshall:

"The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit [to Gotha] deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda'"

I cant link yet but you can find that in "Dear General: Eisenhower's Wartime Letters to Marshall" by Joseph Patrick Hobbs.
Click to expand...

And who bombed the supply lines?
 
Thanks Nick. I ordered Friedleander and Browning's books. For under £20 I'd say it was a good deal. I'll hold off on Longerich until after I finish the other two. Sadly, I won't receive them until after Christmas.
 
Last edited:
Clayton Moore said:
And who bombed the supply lines?
Click to expand...
If you're referring to the Nazi supply lines, then the obvious answer is the allies did. The Nazis bombed cities in Poland, France, and the Netherlands. The Nazis even bombed one of their own cities! The allies bombed Dresden and Hamburg, etc. But what does that have to do with my post?
 
Last edited:
CleverClogs82 said:
If you're referring to the Nazi supply lines, then the obvious answer is the allies did. The Nazis bombed cities in Poland, France, and the Netherlands. The Nazis even bombed one of their own cities! The allies bombed Dresden and Hamburg, etc. But what does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Clayton Moore will now try to claim all deaths in Nazi concentration camps occurred in the spring of 1945, and were caused solely by the Mean Allies bombing Nice Germany.

This one is almost as old as the hills, and just as stupid as the Churchill-Eisenhower-de Gaulle gambit.
 
Nick Terry said:
Clayton Moore will now try to claim all deaths in Nazi concentration camps occurred in the spring of 1945, and were caused solely by the Mean Allies bombing Nice Germany.

This one is almost as old as the hills, and just as stupid as the Churchill-Eisenhower-de Gaulle gambit.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming with evidence to back up those claims, oui?
 
I am not well verse in this CF Larsen = "Saggy" hoax. Thus I am not able to comment on that. However, I offer you any number of non sequitors to prove that you are wrong. I win.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom