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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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You seemed to have missed this request Rabbit

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit
That you misquote documents, cherry-pick testimonies and misrepresent evidence - but we already knew this.

It also proves that there are people out there prepared to put in the work to track down the documents to correct your howlers. To which we all owe a debt of gratitude

Strange you never put references to your documents. Why is that rabbit? With your stunning detective work to unravel the truth about the holocaust I thought you would want the world to know where this information came from.

Could you tell me also where you learned German?
 
Saggy said:
And why not? The perfect absurdity of it epitomizes the hoax. This is one of the astounding things, the in your face absurdity and chutzpah of the hoax. Best example: Elie Wiesel's pack of lies 'Night' which DISPROVES and contradicts the hoax, no gas chambers, absurd tales of throwing men/women into one burning pit and children into another, of tossing babies into the air as target practice for machine gunners, is recommended reading in many schools. That's another high point. The hoaxers revel in the absurdity of the hoax.
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You keep making these claims:

1) What do you find "absurd" about "throwing men/women into one burning pit and children into another?"

2) What do you find "absurd" about "tossing babies into the air as target practice for machine gunners?"

3) Why do you work so hard at constantly brushing off as "absurd" perfectly mundane events such as these (not to mention murderers stealing shoes or people fighting over bread)? It's almost as if you live in a different world than us.

MG1962 said:
Clayton Moore said:
Just how is an odorless poisonous gas contended with by the people who emptied the alleged gas chambers?
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Sonderkommandos
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Well yeah. Do you think he was so eager to post he forgot to think it through or is he just that uninformed?

Not to mention how does he think they emptied the fumigation chamber when de-licing, with the oderant? It's not like the oderant made the poison safe - just noticeable.

Which is why they didn't want it in the poison they used for murder.
 
I'm not sure where this notion that "absurd" = "impossible" came from.

Certainly, the events that keep being referenced are horrific, but I haven't seen any evidence presented that these events cannot have occurred. Care to share, Saggs?
 
Mundane, "of this World." That's the literal meaning. You're wasting your time trying to get Saggy to explain why such things are not possible in the World, and "absurd" when it comes to Jews and the Holocaust. He can't explain it himself. He's got a formula. Though he would know how low humanity can sink.

As for Dogzilla, he did not come into contact with his genocidal heroes so it's unlikely that he has experienced such "niceties," in his lifetime. So what? Neither have I. That does not mean they did not occur. His empiricism, and pathetic complaint about the use of the word "mundane" - which is mean spirited nit picking anyway - is no sort of counter argument, whatsoever.

At best it reads like a sixteen year old's adolescent sneering.
 
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Come on Saggy, overwhelm us with your reasoning as to why all things that are in this World are absurd and laughable when it come to the Holocaust.

Instead of posting the formula.

Give a try.

Here is the Saggy formula

Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+liars+incredible+lousy tee shirt+muller+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+incredible+lousy tee shirt+Muller.Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+liars+incredible+lousy tee shirt+muller+just one witness+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+incredible+lousy tee shirt+Muller+just one witness+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+liars+incredible+lousy tee shirt+mullerjust one witness+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+incredible+lousy tee shirt+Mullerjust one witness+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+liars+incredible+lousy tee shirt+muller+just one witness+Night+Wiesel+absurd+read in schools+laughable+degenerate+incredible+lousy tee shirt+Muller.

Any permutation of the SevenUp improved Hargis formula (see above) can not be taken as an answer.
 
Think_Tank said:
I'm not sure where this notion that "absurd" = "impossible" came from.

Certainly, the events that keep being referenced are horrific, but I haven't seen any evidence presented that these events cannot have occurred. Care to share, Saggs?
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Of course. Events that aren't ordinary occur, but they don't occur ordinarily. During the Holocaust, outright sadism wasn't for everybody and wasn't the norm. The structure of the various National Socialist programs of exclusion, removal, and murder insured that sadism would come into play - and it was useful at times in moving these programs along, terrorizing victims, and so on - but what was going on was far worse than individual acts of sadism: this was the organized, progressive elimination and eradication of those people whom the National Socialists defined as threats to the national community or as their worst enemies. Without a single baby shot in the air or Boger swing, we are left with an extensive program of mass murder. Too much emphasis on these (often well documented) reports of atrocities, without situating them functionally, runs the danger of taking focus off the organized and goal-oriented quality of the National Socialist extermination projects in favor of individual psychologies, outrages, etc. That said, reading the literature on National Socialist street violence, concentration camps, open-air shootings, ghettos, deportations and resettlements, and death camps will bring you face to face with many such documented atrocities.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Of course. Events that aren't ordinary occur, but they don't occur ordinarily. During the Holocaust, outright sadism wasn't for everybody and wasn't the norm. The structure of the various National Socialist programs of exclusion, removal, and murder insured that sadism would come into play - and it was useful at times in moving these programs along, terrorizing victims, and so on - but what was going on was far worse than individual acts of sadism: this was the organized, progressive elimination and eradication of those people whom the National Socialists defined as threats to the national community or as their worst enemies. Without a single baby shot in the air or Boger swing, we are left with an extensive program of mass murder. Too much emphasis on these (often well documented) reports of atrocities, without situating them functionally, runs the danger of taking focus off the organized and goal-oriented quality of the National Socialist extermination projects in favor of individual psychologies, outrages, etc. That said, reading the literature on National Socialist street violence, concentration camps, open-air shootings, ghettos, deportations and resettlements, and death camps will bring you face to face with many such documented atrocities.
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What is extraordinary about WW II, apart from the effects of technology which multiplied the destructiveness of the war by a big factor, was the lies told by the Jews after the war. The lies had begun in WW I as is documented in the book 'The First Holohoax, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I' by Don Heddesheimer and documented by numerous articles in the NYT and other Jewish owned media. The lies were continuous during WW II as documented in 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' by Arthur Butz, and by the end of the war Jews had gained control of the War Refugee Board which controlled US policy in post war Europe, and what had been ridiculous propaganda lies that no one believed became the official position of the US government, and the Nuremberg trials were used to give the lies based on wholy undocumented uncorroborated testimony the force of law.
 
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Saggy said:
What is extraordinary about WW II, apart from the effects of technology which multiplied the obstructiveness of the war by a big factor, was the lies told by the Jews after the war. The lies had begun in WW I as is documented in the book 'The First Holohoax, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I' by Don Heddesheimer and documented by numerous articles in the NYT and other Jewish owned media. The lies were continuous during WW II as documented in 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' by Arthur Butz, and by the end of the war Jews had gained control of the War Refugee Board which controlled US policy in post war Europe, and what had been ridiculous propaganda lies that no one believed became the official position of the US government, and the Nuremberg trials were used to give the lies based on wholy undocumented uncorroborated testimony the force of law.
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So let's try being specific and supporting claims with evidence and argument.

First, upthread Wroclaw and I discussed the Einsatzgruppen trial, which was one of the Nuremburg subsequent proceedings and, unlike the IMT, directly and unilaterally controlled by the US. Please show how this trial was under control of the War Refugee Board, and promoted ridiculous propaganda lies. Please show what made this trial, in your view, unjust and reach an erroneous verdict.

Second, we have been discussing evidence for a single open-air shooting action, at Ponar in the first week of September 1941. In this discussion the journal kept by Kazimierz Sakowicz has been mentioned. This diary details many killing actions at Ponar including the one under discussion, based on the direct observation of Sakowicz. Please show how this journal promoted lies of Jews that were continuous throughout World War II. What lies are told in this diary and how do you know that the writer was lying?
 
Saggy said:
What is extraordinary about WW II, apart from the effects of technology which multiplied the obstructiveness of the war by a big factor, was the lies told by the Jews after the war. The lies had begun in WW I as is documented in the book 'The First Holohoax, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I' by Don Heddesheimer and documented by numerous articles in the NYT and other Jewish owned media. The lies were continuous during WW II as documented in 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' by Arthur Butz, and by the end of the war Jews had gained control of the War Refugee Board which controlled US policy in post war Europe, and what had been ridiculous propaganda lies that no one believed became the official position of the US government, and the Nuremberg trials were used to give the lies based on wholy undocumented uncorroborated testimony the force of law.
Click to expand...

Continuing after WW2, much of the West was coerced into making it illegal to debate the Holocaust. Unable to swing that one the US has passed hate crime laws that, when the 9/11 ball drops, will serve the same purpose.
 
LemmyCaution said:
So let's try being specific and supporting claims with evidence and argument.

First, upthread Wroclaw and I discussed the Einsatzgruppen trial, which was one of the Nuremburg subsequent proceedings and, unlike the IMT, directly and unilaterally controlled by the US. Please show how this trial was under control of the War Refugee Board, and promoted ridiculous propaganda lies. Please show what made this trial, in your view, unjust and reach an erroneous verdict.

Second, we have been discussing evidence for a single open-air shooting action, at Ponar in the first week of September 1941. In this discussion the journal kept by Kazimierz Sakowicz has been mentioned. This diary details many killing actions at Ponar including the one under discussion, based on the direct observation of Sakowicz. Please show how this journal promoted lies of Jews that were continuous throughout World War II. What lies are told in this diary and how do you know that the writer was lying?
Click to expand...

There are plenty of lies told by the major holohoax witnesses and scholars lie Elie Wiesel, Yankel Wiernik, Abraham Bomba, Yehuda Baurer, Raul Hilberg, Frantisek Piper, et. al, so that I don't have to go chasing obscure references to undocumented lies from non-existent people. I leave that to those so inclined like Bunny and Dog. I'm just here to remind you of the big picture.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Continuing after WW2, much of the West was coerced into making it illegal to debate the Holocaust. Unable to swing that one the US has passed hate crime laws that, when the 9/11 ball drops, will serve the same purpose.
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,
You post yet another lie in a lame attempt to justify your hate.

THERE IS NO LAW MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO DEBATE ANYTHING.

There are laws that have been used to prevent lies being told as you have done, but they cover all lies, including your crap posts about the Holocaust, 9/11 and vaccines.

There are no laws nor rules to prevent you from posting crap -- and there are no laws nor rules that prevent me from pointing out that they are crap.

Go ahead, CM: prove me wrong. Tell us your definition of "much" that would make what you just posted not a lie.







Edited by Darat: 
Breach of Rule 0 and Rule 11 removed.
 
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Content related to Forum Management issue removed. Do not try to bring up Forum Management issues outside of the Forum Management section.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
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Saggy said:
There are plenty of lies told by the major holohoax witnesses and scholars lie Elie Wiesel, Yankel Wiernik, Abraham Bomba, Yehuda Baurer, Raul Hilberg, Frantisek Piper, et. al, so that I don't have to go chasing obscure references to undocumented lies from non-existent people. I leave that to those so inclined like Bunny and Dog. I'm just here to remind you of the big picture.
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And yet I haven't seen you prove any lies at all. And here was your chance finally to demonstrate one of your claims.

The Einsatzgruppen trial is now supposed to be "obscure"? That's rich. Same for the "non-existent" Sakowicz, whose description is, uh, documented in his, well, document - which, you know, correlates with other accounts.

In other words, you fail - and thus resort to handwaving which you try to convince yourself is the big picture.

You know, I kind of figured.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Continuing after WW2, much of the West was coerced into making it illegal to debate the Holocaust.
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I think there are 11 countries that have such laws. The countries that don't include: the U.K., Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Moldova, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo, the Vatican, Andorra, Malta.

Not to mention anywhere in North or South America, nor in South Africa.

Anywhere in the west I forgot?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Continuing after WW2, much of the West was coerced into making it illegal to debate the Holocaust.
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Despite sounding dire, this doesn't really make a lot of sense. Are you referring to laws against hate speech and incitement, mostly enacted 40-50 years after the end of the war, in some countries mainly on the European continent? What do you mean "continuing after WW2" when no such laws existed during WW2, to my knowledge, and given the approximately half century gap in time from the war until such laws began being enacted? Could you be so helpful as to explain what you mean by the coercion that made debating the Holocaust illegal, specifically how this debate was supposedly made illegal, when and where, why, and what exactly is illegal in the countries you refer to? For a bonus, you could tell us why Saggy's big liar Hilberg opposed such laws . . .
 
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Saggy said:
There are plenty of lies told by the major holohoax witnesses and scholars lie Elie Wiesel, Yankel Wiernik, Abraham Bomba, Yehuda Baurer, Raul Hilberg, Frantisek Piper, et. al, so that I don't have to go chasing obscure references to undocumented lies from non-existent people. I leave that to those so inclined like Bunny and Dog. I'm just here to remind you of the big picture.
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Don't forget Spielberg and Zisblatt and her book and the girl who was raised by wolves and her book. I'm curious as to why all these liar's liespeak are still acceptable to the Jewish community in that they remain available for public consumption?
 
If Saggy is here to present "The Big Picture," then how come the vast canvas of it in his time at JREF consists of a set of repetitive (mixed metaphors here) scratched irreparably, records and all repeating the same formula? I appreciate his varying the spiel for me up thread...However, Lemmy Caution has pointed out some essentially fatal flaws in this precious NEW big picture of Saggs and I have noted that he has not (yet) been able to respond to them. Do Clayton Moore and Dogzilla have some "big pictures?"
 
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