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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Why? As has been stated before when assessing any case one looks at the totality of the evidence, not just one piece.

Think of the last murder trial in your home town, the Crown prosecutor/DA/ prosecutor presents all the evidence, not just one piece. The jury bases the verdict on the TOTALITY of the evidence. The judge then either says "free to go" or passes judgement.
 
Saggy, your "refutation" of the evidence of both was to go (and I paraphrase), "I don't believe them," and then you stopped - no reasons, no counter evidence, nothing but an argument my 7 year old has learned not to make.

A while back the Holohoax stable of lying standard bearers was discussed. And yet the most egregious lies, the ones that created the HORROR of the Holocaust, are ignored by the Holocaust community.

Even the math is nutso. 10000 gassed in a day? Gassing vans? And the idea that millions were secretly killed in work camps in Poland? Jewish men providing the labor needed to kill millions of Jewish children, women, and men?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7686602&postcount=6710

Here is a question for you Nick - how many of the above esteemed authors of scholarly works on the holohoax objected, publicly or even privately, to the grotesque lies that Irene Zisblatt told in the movie 'The Last Days'. How many objected to the academy award Spielberg received for that grotesque movie? How many objected to Wielsel's grotesque lies? Meullers?

I'll answer for you - none of them did. They all explicitly or implicitly endorse the lies of Wiesel, Zisblatt, Meuller, Wiernik, et. al. The authors on your list are total frauds, degenerates the likes of which the world has never before seen, complicit in the greatest and most destructive hoax of all time.
 
It will serve your arguments better to go to the sources and not rely on posts in a forum as substitutes. Now, please tell the members of this forum, as I asked you before, where in Kruk's account of Pesye Schloss's testimony it is said or even implied that she played dead. And explain where Pesye Schloss lied and how you know she lied. Stop playing games.

So we can't respond to anything somebody on your team says without verifying that what they insist is the truth about the holocaust or that their interpretation of what they believe is the truth about the holocaust is indeed what the mainstream historians say is the truth? We should just assume that you people are quite possibly spouting out rubbish and that we need to fact check your argument first?

And if we actually try to check your facts before we respond, we can't rely on any of the most respected historians in the field or any book they've written if it more than a few years old because there's a pretty good chance that the information is out of date.

What I think would be easier is for you guys to get your facts straight--especially when only a Joo hater doesn't take everything you say at face value.

Does anybody wonder why I want to establish some basic parameters first?
 
Time.

After twenty minutes, it would have been safe because the concentration in the air would have been low enough.

The history books tell us that Zyklon B was ordered without the warning agent. For some reason, this is evidence of nefarious intent. The history books don't tell us that a special fast acting Zyklon B was ordered for extermination purposes. That means that the Zyklon B that was used for killing lice worked as quickly as the Zyklon B that was used for killing Jews. So after twenty minutes the Zyklon B was still sublimating and the concentration of poisonous gas was still increasing inside the closed chamber.

Thank Dog Lemmycaution tipped me off about checking everything you guys say because of your propensity to just make stuff up as you go along. :)
 
LOL ! You want the moderators to bail you out again, like they do in every discussion when you embarrass your Zionist masters. Give it a shot, Nick, it's the only hope you've got.

Or, you could just name one witness to the hoax. Yehuda Bauer did it. He gave the full authority of Yad Vashem to the degenerate and obvious lies of Filip Meuller. He wrote that Meuller was the ONLY man to see the Jewish people die and live to tell it. Do you know something Bauer doesn't?

People might be more willing to give your claims credence if you weren't so blatantly and openly anti-Semitic. It's sort of like listening to someone try and convince you Obama is doing a bad job as President, interspersed with claims he's a Marxist born in Kenya.

Even the math is nutso. 10000 gassed in a day? Gassing vans? And the idea that millions were secretly killed in work camps in Poland? Jewish men providing the labor needed to kill millions of Jewish children, women, and men?
Argument from incredulity?

From the guys who were dumbfounded a guard might steal the shoes off a "dead" girl?
 
The reason we can deny the overwhelming archive of evidence is that it is all crap.

So, Yad Vashem can supply the names of 50,000 victims/witnesses whatever of the holohoax.

However, respected (if not loved) holohoax scholar Nick Terry cannnot produce the name of ONE credible Jewish witness. Why not? Because all the witnesses either did not witness the hoax by their own accounts, or are obvious pathological liars. It's that simple.

So, you reject the 200 names that Nick gave you because you think they are all pathological liars? On what grounds do you condemn these 200 people as liars?

Please be aware that, by your classification, I am simply one of the usual nitwits as I'm just an interested layman.
 
So we can't respond to anything somebody on your team says without verifying that what they insist is the truth about the holocaust or that their interpretation of what they believe is the truth about the holocaust is indeed what the mainstream historians say is the truth? We should just assume that you people are quite possibly spouting out rubbish and that we need to fact check your argument first?

And if we actually try to check your facts before we respond, we can't rely on any of the most respected historians in the field or any book they've written if it more than a few years old because there's a pretty good chance that the information is out of date.

What I think would be easier is for you guys to get your facts straight--especially when only a Joo hater doesn't take everything you say at face value.

Does anybody wonder why I want to establish some basic parameters first?
Because, for one thing, there isn't a team, there are individuals responding as individuals. Because, for another, people have varying degrees of knowledge about particular topics. Because, of course, anyone can make an error on this or that point (and errors should be cleared up, no matter who makes them). Because, finally, no, you can't rely on any single work of a historian, in any field, as the final truth - and if you want to know about something, as opposed to trying to convince yourself that you are scoring points in a game of teams, you have to actually put in some effort of your own. Sorry, but that is how life, including this topic, works.

Taking the case in point, those who introduced the error I had in mind actually included two brave revisionists. You first steered the discussion toward the madeup notion that Pesye Schloss played dead:
And what kind of a master thespian is able to take a bullet through the foot without flinching?
You were hoping no one had read the actuall text because it makes clear that there was no acting involved and that Pesye Schloss most likely passed out from the second bullet. Anyone who picked your nonsense up was simply misdirected by your line of thought, perhaps having given you too much credence, I don't know for sure. Another point that got picked up and repeated in the discussion was Clayton Moore's lying rewrite that a "guard" of some sort shot Pesye Schloss. Other errors also came from non-revisionists, regarding the role of the SS and language issues to name two. Interested in the history, I did indeed respond to all these misinterpretations. As anyone should.

Now, you can put on a stupid pretend act that you can't be bothered because not everyone posting has the same interpretation of or knowledge about one particular incident - or you can try to focus on the incident itself, what a strong interpretation of it might be, based on the evidence and sources, and what that interpretation says in this instance about pathologically and degenerate lying. In other words, put up, or shut up: Not one of you has been able to answer two simple questions: 1) What was Pesye Schloss lying about? 2) And how do you know she lied? If your answer is that you know because some anonymous poster on JREF got a fact or two bollixed up, or your other bit of mendacity, that a historian's gloss left a mistaken impression, you will essentially be announcing that you are a fool and not to be taken seriously. Go for it.
 
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Thank Dog Lemmycaution tipped me off about checking everything you guys say because of your propensity to just make stuff up as you go along. :)
Yes, you should check everything for yourself, as you might see something others have missed or make a connection that hasn't yet been made, and it would be even better if deniers read the basic literature about the Holocaust and familiarized themselves with topics under discussion before posting about them.

But of course you will not be able to point to where I said "us guys" have a "propensity to just make stuff up as" we "go along." In other words, you are misrepresenting what I said, or, as we say in Chicago, you're lying.
 
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A while back the Holohoax stable of lying standard bearers was discussed. And yet the most egregious lies, the ones that created the HORROR of the Holocaust, are ignored by the Holocaust community.

Even the math is nutso. 10000 gassed in a day? Gassing vans? And the idea that millions were secretly killed in work camps in Poland? Jewish men providing the labor needed to kill millions of Jewish children, women, and men?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7686602&postcount=6710

So, no actual reason you can't believe the scope.
 
The history books tell us that Zyklon B was ordered without the warning agent.

Indeed.

For some reason, this is evidence of nefarious intent.

Don't complain to me. Complain to the prosecution in the IG Farben trial.

The history books don't tell us that a special fast acting Zyklon B was ordered for extermination purposes.

That's because it wasn't.

That means that the Zyklon B that was used for killing lice worked as quickly as the Zyklon B that was used for killing Jews.

More quickly, actually. Has to do with the type of respiratory systems that mammals have, versus arthropods.

So after twenty minutes the Zyklon B was still sublimating and the concentration of poisonous gas was still increasing inside the closed chamber.

And you blew it.

Tell 'em all about the columns now, DG.

Always with the dishonesty...
 
People might be more willing to give your claims credence if you weren't so blatantly and openly anti-Semitic. It's sort of like listening to someone try and convince you Obama is doing a bad job as President, interspersed with claims he's a Marxist born in Kenya.


Argument from incredulity?

From the guys who were dumbfounded a guard might steal the shoes off a "dead" girl?

Maybe the part where a guard was killing people, including children, saw a child who was alive, took her shoes and then shot her in the foot.

The 10,000 a day gassings? Ritual genocide? Gassing vans? Mass burials? 10,000 mass burials or cremations a day? And none of the camps inhabitants or Polish people and the IRC working in the camps noticed?

You do know the workers in the camps were paid wages and were allowed to send and receive mail? Do you think the Germans had the manpower to censor every letter, in and out?
 
You do know the workers in the camps were paid wages and were allowed to send and receive mail? Do you think the Germans had the manpower to censor every letter, in and out?

Know who this guy was?

Solzhenitsyn.jpg


During the war, that guy wrote a letter from the front in East Prussia (now Kaliningrad oblast in Russia) criticizing his leader, and he was thrown in prison for it.

He wrote a book about it, eventually. You should know who he was.
 
While you are at it, what do you find incredible in the SS own documentation of the massacres?

- SS-Standartenfuehrer Jaeger in his report of December 1, 1941 on "Secret Reich Business" for EGA commander Stahleker puts the number of deaths at Ponar on September 2, 1941 as follows: "864 Jews, 2,109 Jewesses, 817 Jewish children (punitive action because German soldiers had been shot by Jews)" [total: 3,890]


- Jaeger’s report for also stated that “On 12 September, 993 Jewish males, 1,670 Jewish women, and 771 Jewish children, a total of 3,334, were liquidated in Vilna”

What I find incredible is that Nazi Germany wouldn't respond to Jews shooting it's soldiers with any sort of punitive action. The SS went and shot 3,890 Jews but that's something they were going to do anyway because of that, ya know, Final Solution policy of killing all the Jews.

It's like a parent who punishes his child by making him go do his homework. A punishment needs to be something that the kid didn't already have to do anyway. Jeez.

No wonder Germany lost war what with their coddling the civilian population like that.
 
Indeed.



Don't complain to me. Complain to the prosecution in the IG Farben trial.



That's because it wasn't.



More quickly, actually. Has to do with the type of respiratory systems that mammals have, versus arthropods.

Hydrogen cyanide acts more quickly. Zyklon B is the product that released the hydrogen cyanide. Zyklon B released the hydrogen cyanide gas at the same rate no matter who or what was being killed.


And you blew it.

Tell 'em all about the columns now, DG.

Always with the dishonesty...

The columns in the gas chambers that had been retrofitted for murder? Yeah. They pulled the pellets out of gas chamber after everybody was dead and they did what with these pellets as they continued sublimating the gas?

But that worked only in the gas chambers that hadn't been designed specifically for murder. For the two gas chambers that were designed as gas chambers from day one, they threw the Zykon B in through some windows. No columns there.

Always with the stupidity....
 
Maybe the part where a guard was killing people, including children, saw a child who was alive, took her shoes and then shot her in the foot.

Who said he noticed she was alive?

The story is she was shot, fell down, and a guard took her shoes. Then she was shot again.

The 10,000 a day gassings? Ritual genocide? Gassing vans? Mass burials? 10,000 mass burials or cremations a day? And none of the camps inhabitants or Polish people and the IRC working in the camps noticed?

The Poles did notice and the word did get out.

You do know the workers in the camps were paid wages and were allowed to send and receive mail? Do you think the Germans had the manpower to censor every letter, in and out?

Yes, but I believe you are confusing the POWs from western nations, and the run of the mill German criminals in some of the camps with the POWs from the USSR and eastern countries and those slated to be killed.

And yes. I believe that they could and did censor each and every piece of incoming and outgoing mail. They did for the POWs and their armed forces.
 
Hydrogen cyanide acts more quickly. Zyklon B is the product that released the hydrogen cyanide. Zyklon B released the hydrogen cyanide gas at the same rate no matter who or what was being killed.

Correct, but it would take longer to kill 1,000 lice than a thousand people, agreed?

The columns in the gas chambers that had been retrofitted for murder?

No retrofit necessary, as the gas chambers were built for that purpose.

Yeah. They pulled the pellets out of gas chamber after everybody was dead and they did what with these pellets as they continued sublimating the gas?

Considering that they were outside, it was far less dangerous, wouldn't you agree?

But that worked only in the gas chambers that hadn't been designed specifically for murder. For the two gas chambers that were designed as gas chambers from day one, they threw the Zykon B in through some windows. No columns there.

Not true. But even if it were, there's still the matter of the exhaust systems and the use of gas masks.

Always with the stupidity....

Yes, you do.
 
What I find incredible is that Nazi Germany wouldn't respond to Jews shooting it's soldiers with any sort of punitive action. The SS went and shot 3,890 Jews but that's something they were going to do anyway because of that, ya know, Final Solution policy of killing all the Jews.

It's like a parent who punishes his child by making him go do his homework. A punishment needs to be something that the kid didn't already have to do anyway. Jeez.

No wonder Germany lost war what with their coddling the civilian population like that.

Can someone translate this to proper English is this just the incoherent ignorant gibberish it looks like at first glance?
 
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