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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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No. You freaking explain the freaking coincidence.

In the 1897 Russian census 5.1 million jews calling western Russia home. In 1921 when the great famine occured, someone made an educated guess to how many Jews were still left in Western Russia, called it 6 million and called it good.

The Jews were far from the only group threatened. I have access to primary documents that tell of similar cumstances faced by the Volga German population. Unlike the holocaust all ethnic groups faced enormous loss of life due to the famine

The reality is the number of Jews affected was probably in the low 3 millions
 
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Where have deniers been prosecuted?

Nick Terry answers.

It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.
But the calling of antisemites antisemitic is not false. Why are the antisemites such cowards nowadays, that they operate from antisemitic frameworks and can't contain antisemitic sentiments - yet pretend not to be antisemites? Lordy: the antisemites lack the courage of their convictions, and yet are full of passionate intensity.
 
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What false accusations? If someone's a Holocaust denier and is exposed as being a Holocaust denier, that does not amount to a false accusation. It amounts, rather, to a true accusation.

If they're a bona fide Jew hater, as people here have amply proved themselves to be, then — again — it's a true accusation. It may also be irrelevant and the person's friends, family, employer, etc., may not care. That's a chance every Jew-hater takes, I guess.

You poor thing, you.

Why don't you take me up on my lunch offer, and I can tell you in person how much I don't give a fat, hairy crap?
It's just terrible: the racists and antisemites have to suffer the opinions of people who view them as crap. What kind of world is this? Where people get called what they are and occasionally ostracized just 'cuz they hate Jews, bait Jews, attribute all manner of criminality and bad motives to Jews?
 
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It's just terrible: the racists and antisemites have to suffer the opinions of people who view them as crap. What kind of world is this? Where people get ostracized just 'cuz they hate Jews, bait Jews, attribute all manner of criminality and bad motives to Jews?

Explain to me Mr Caution, how is asking where are the mass graves at Treblinka baiting Jews?

Lawds amercy, I even offered to fly Dr Terry to Warsaw on Whizz Air, provide him with a car, GPR equipment and expert, if he would only get permission to scan the site from the authorities! How is that hating Jews or baiting Jews?

I was outraged, however, when Dr Terry whimpered that to take up this most generous offer would be bad for his career - despite my offer of a very generous drinks tab on Whiz Air.

Who or what could be threatening or blackmailing our mutual friend Dr Terry? Surely these thugs are acting with criminality and bad motives?

Unhand Dr Terry, I say!
 
Hate mongering? Deftly wielded.
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No, your hate mongering is a rather clumsy thing, as befits the irrationality of that hate.

Just like your championing the truth by posting lies.

Has someone more clever than you given you a glib answer for Krege's inability to demonstrate that he was even in the right place so you can repeat it without any further effort on your part, yet?
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Lawds amercy, I even offered to fly Dr Terry to Warsaw on Whizz Air, provide him with a car, GPR equipment and expert, if he would only get permission to scan the site from the authorities! How is that hating Jews or baiting Jews?

How fascinating.

1) You have left out all the same things that Krege also forgot to mention. What university have you engaged to process the raw data? (Did you forget this process like Krege did?)

2) Why don't you simply contact your fellow holocaust denier, Richard Krege and pay for him to complete his work? ( Is this because you don't trust holocaust deniers?)


I was outraged, however, when Dr Terry whimpered that to take up this most generous offer would be bad for his career - despite my offer of a very generous drinks tab on Whiz Air.

3) I didn't know he was also a forensic archaeologist whereas your "venture" would require a forensic archaeologist wouldn't it? (Did you forget this when you started fabricating this plan yesterday?)

4) Can you link us to your scientific paper which states what evidence you are looking for in exact terms, for example the controls, attunement to Polish soil conditions, comparative information to other sites with human ash remains using GPR, your proposed scanning grid etc etc?

5) Assuming that you are lying through your teeth and have never set anything out on paper, would you use your generously offered money to pay a forensic archaeologist to write a report for you on how such a venture should take place and share this with us? ( or are you just crapping on again?)
 
It has to do with flow. When it becomes overflow the Zionist mezzage steps out of the shadows to stem and reroute the tide. With Zuprezzion if necessary.


Would you mind rewriting the above to English? Because it reads like gibberish to me as is.
 
Explain to me Mr Caution, how is asking where are the mass graves at Treblinka baiting Jews?

Lawds amercy, I even offered to fly Dr Terry to Warsaw on Whizz Air, provide him with a car, GPR equipment and expert, if he would only get permission to scan the site from the authorities! How is that hating Jews or baiting Jews?

I was outraged, however, when Dr Terry whimpered that to take up this most generous offer would be bad for his career - despite my offer of a very generous drinks tab on Whiz Air.

Who or what could be threatening or blackmailing our mutual friend Dr Terry? Surely these thugs are acting with criminality and bad motives?

Unhand Dr Terry, I say!

Link to your postal offer?


It would provide nick's request for evidence.


Nick Terry
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.


Evidence?
 
Butz didn't cite from anything from Arolsen. Real historians were able to cite from Arolsen materials until the late 70s, and many files were copied for Ludwigsburg, Yad Vashem and the Polish archives.

The reason for the closure of Arolsen was due to the desire of the West German government to make compensation claims more difficult to process. Kind of the opposite of what Saggy's "Zionists" would have wanted, isn't it?

As usual, Saggy's blether is contradicted by the actual track record of revisionists in the archives. Irving and Crowell have even been in the USHMM archive, from which they cannot be turned away since it's a federal agency. Irving, Crowell, Butz and Weber went to NARA. Irving, Lindsey and Crowell went to the British Public Record Office. The catch is that the use made of these archives, which are all totally open access, was generally dilettantish. Irving knows them best, but then he's no longer a hardcore denier....


Yet also Irving was banned from using German archives, I know that I can't get replies from written enquiries about using the Auschwitz archive or Moscow archives.

And the most recent outrage to rock the historical community

file.php


I think it is disgusting and I also think Dr Terry should be free to visit any site he wishes and carry out GPR scans.

Shame on those who tried to intimidate him!
 
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Thomas Kues slams Dr Terry

http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2011/volume_3/number_3/a_premature_news_report.php

Instead the opposite happened, as anti-revisionist and “Holocaust historian” Nick Terry a priori declared Walendy a forger without bothering to look up the original newspaper article. In fact, in the above cited posting from 19 June 2009 Terry writes:

“I am looking forward to consulting a copy of Dziennik Polski for the relevant date at some point in the future and showing that this is an unequivocal example of denier forgery.”

As is to be expected, this verification has now been done—by revisionists instead of by Terry and his cohorts. To the sure disappointment of Mr. Terry it turns out that he was wrong on all points. Let us summarize:

Walendy’s quote from the article (as well as the transcription apparently edited into the facsimile) is correct, with the exception of a single obscured digit (26,000 misread as 25,000) and some minor wording.

The pre-opening reports do indeed indicate a “knowledge” of Treblinka as a site used for mass killings.

The very much authentic Dziennik Polski article does speak of a five-figure killing in connection with the camp. To make it even worse for the hapless exterminationists, it claims that Jews were sent to be gassed in Treblinka already in March 1942, i.e. some two months before the camp was even being constructed.

There exists no reason to believe that the conditions among the inmates in Treblinka II during the construction phase of that camp could have given rise to the contents of the abovementioned reports.

As for Terry’s claim that Mattogno and Graf skirted the Dziennik Polski article “because it is so clearly a forgery” this is not correct either. The actual reason for its non-inclusion is simply that it was overlooked among the wealth of other material on the camp eventually reproduced and discussed in the study in question. 41 Nick Terry’s eagerness to ascribe forgeries and bad faith to his opponents without evidence to back up his accusations speaks for itself.

Ouch! Lets all hope Hateblogwatch doesn't get hold of this bollocking.
 
I think it is disgusting and I also think Dr Terry should be free to visit any site he wishes and carry out GPR scans.

So you really don't know the difference between an academic historian and a forensic archaeologist. That's amazing. It sort of explains the ongoing confusion on your website.

So tell me, which Melbourne university did you contract to analyse the raw data from your offered GPR "venture"? Was this in a dream or something you made up when awake?
 
Link to your postal offer?

It would provide nick's request for evidence.

No, it wouldn't. My refusal to collaborate with an anonymous internet troll in a grandstanding exercise doesn't constitute evidence for your claims. And besides, I am not American.

You claimed

It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.

without providing a single example.


Face it, in America the 1st Amendment means that Holocaust deniers can publish their ideas and argue their case using their own resources. That's called freedom of speech. That's why you're allowed on this forum to post. It also means other people have the freedom of speech to tell you and your ilk that you are wrong and that you are despicable.

'Revisionists' don't get prosecuted in the US for Holocaust denial. That's why nearly all the servers for Holocaust denial websites, even the one in those icky languages furriners speak, are based in the US.

That's why there are people out there, like Arthur Butz, Bradley Smith, and David Duke, who have been denying the Holocaust for decades. What's happened to them?

Butz is still teaching. Bradley Smith chose to become a full-time revisionist activist as a career, he has no one else to blame but himself. David Duke chose to be a Ku Klux Klan leader and white nationalist politician, and didn't get elected. He has no one else to blame but himself.

Other people also chose in the past to become full-time revisionist activists. Mark Weber, Greg Raven, Tom Marcellus, Ted O'Keefe - the full-time staff of the Institute for Historical Review. They chose to work for an "institute" with no university affiliations and to publish a journal. They didn't even try to get jobs in a university, or in the media. They just went ahead and became full-time revisionists.

Alas, that effort failed nearly a decade ago when the Journal for Historical Review folded in 2002. Because of declining sales. That's right, the market decided that 'revisionism' wasn't viable. Now the IHR simply runs a website with news stories about the evils of Zionism.

Oh but wait - The Barnes Review is still going! They still sell magazines every month. They publish Holocaust denial. They employ people, who again chose to work for Willis Carto and the American Free Press.

The National Alliance is also still going. So are many other far-right parties. David Duke still has his website. Stormfront, as Saggy pointed out, is a big forum and there are lots of Holocaust deniers there.

People choose to join those parties and movements. No one is stopping them. There are hundreds of groups out there peddling bigotry.


I'm going to bold the last bit because chances are good that Clayton Moore and Saggy cannot follow anything longer than a tweet:

Racism, homophobia and misogyny are also unacceptable in American society, culture and the mainstream media.

That's a fact. I don't care whether you like it or not, it just is. After many decades of cultural change, the world has changed, and it's not the 1950s anymore.

You can find a dozen places to hang out and vent your bigotry if you want to, Clayton. You can even get your bigotry published in a wide variety of publications and on websites. Nobody is stopping you from going to Stormfront or VNN.

But outside of those safe havens, everyone else has the right to call you a bigot. That's freedom of speech.

Don't like it, go to North Korea.
 
Explain to me Mr Caution, how is asking where are the mass graves at Treblinka baiting Jews?
It has more to do with an ethnic group that has lost all respect and its problems with bakeries. I would post a link to antisemitic goodies over at Rodoh, as I did once before, but that's against the rules. And this very weekend we are treated right here in this thread to tidings from Stormfront. And Hitler's depiction of Jews as virtuoso liars, from Mein Kampf. All of which is really just a revisionist's way of asking technical questions about how gas chambers worked, right?
 
Why would any newspaper publish a letter which invokes a book from 1976?

What we need is an easy test to determine if the US media is totally controlled by the Zionists, and here it is .... submit the following ad to the classified ad section of the paper .....

For sale - unused copy of 'The First Holohoax, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW One' by Don Heddesheimer.

No paper in the US or Europe will accept the ad.
 
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Face it, in America the 1st Amendment means that Holocaust deniers can publish their ideas and argue their case using their own resources. That's called freedom of speech. That's why you're allowed on this forum to post.

Dr. Nick Terry can't get even the simplest things right. We're allowed to post on this forum purely on the whim of the forum administration, the First Amendment has nothing to do with it. Most forums based in the US prohibit any discussion of the holohoax despite the First Amendment.

It also means other people have the freedom of speech to tell you and your ilk that you are wrong and that you are despicable.

Again even the simplest facts elude Dr. Nick Terry. Personal attacks violate the rules of the randi forum.
 
A real book and not just a shonky download for nothing? Well maybe if it had written in fountian pen upon the funny blank bits that are found at the beginning and ends of books:

"Dear Mr Mattogno, herewith a little effort of mine inspired by your own researches! Your friend, "Smiley-face" Donnie..."

Your ilk are despicable, at least the world sees you as despicable. Hence posters ask you why you hate Jews. Even in such a place as JREF which is outside the Revisionist den huts with your Nazi racist gangs, the world has a negative opinion of you and of your dubious activities.

I thought it was because you were a conspiracy theorist SevenUp that you posted here. JREF was setup on that premiss anyway, to discuss the weird, the paranormal, the conspiracies (ssshhh,) it's not like an ordinary board, in this case in this section, it has a specific ambit. If you find that to be objectionable, then you are free to make another 3 dozen dull posts upon how this isn't a conspiracy theory, it is a holohoax. Keeping in mind that is still how you and your gang have been labelled of course. If you object to that, well, you can always go and live at Stormfront where your ridiculous and despicable and often worthless and backward ideas are apparently treated seriously.

Your website sucks too.
 
Dr. Nick Terry can't get even the simplest things right. We're allowed to post on this forum purely on the whim of the forum administration, the First Amendment has nothing to do with it. Most forums based in the US prohibit any discussion of the holohoax despite the First Amendment.

I´m not really surprised you can´t even get the most elementary facts right. The First Amendment prohibits government from shutting down your constant lies and misrepresentations on this forum - Nick Terry got that exactly right.
 
Dr. Nick Terry can't get even the simplest things right. We're allowed to post on this forum purely on the whim of the forum administration, the First Amendment has nothing to do with it. Most forums based in the US prohibit any discussion of the holohoax despite the First Amendment.

Missing the point. You and your ilk can set up your own websites and publishing companies, the US government will not interfere because of the 1st amendment. That's freedom of speech.

The government will also not interfere if you pop up like a gopher on a forum like this - whether or not to allow you is down to the forum management.

Incidentally, I disagree that most forums based in the US necessarily would prohibit Holocaust denial. It's just that there are very few forums where it would make any real sense to bring the issue up, since forums tend to discuss things like sports, music, guitar playing, celebrities, software, flying planes, cars, etc.

The other reasons why your claim - advanced without any evidence - that denial is 'prohibited' on most forums must be regarded as suspect are as follows.

Firstly, there just aren't that many deniers. Even if you dispatched all currently active CODOH members and sent them to another forum to start a discussion, you'd not cover more than 100 or so places.

Secondly, the deniers that do exist tend to be rancorous, overly combative and offensive, and are also impervious to reason and common sense. This has a tendency to get the deniers banned for rules violations, as we've seen on this forum with some of you guys, but not others.

I've seen denial raised without being censored a priori on JREF, Skeptics Society Forum, David Icke forums, Above Top Secret, Historum forum (a big history forum in the US), Discuss Anything (now defunct), The Phora and many other sites which are all to my knowledge based in the US.

Again even the simplest facts elude Dr. Nick Terry. Personal attacks violate the rules of the randi forum.

True, they do, but what I wrote wasn't a personal attack, it was a global statement about what freedom of speech means. Try reading for comprehension.
 
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