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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Nick Terry said:
Time and again, instead of actually spending serious time doing the work, deniers have rushed into print with little more than antisemitic drivel gussied up with some citations plagiarised from the previous guy, and wondered why they are laughed at in one part of the world, and prosecuted in another.
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I don't know how I missed this one the first time around. I thought holocaust denial wasn't illegal anywhere or at least not anywhere important. Where have deniers been prosecuted? Were they prosecuted for doing shoddy research too quickly or for something else?
 
Nick Terry said:
The reason for the closure of Arolsen was due to the desire of the West German government to make compensation claims more difficult to process. Kind of the opposite of what Saggy's "Zionists" would have wanted, isn't it?
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You wouldn't happen to have any evidence of specific individuals in the West German government who took specific actions that restricted access to Bad Arolsen because of the desire to make compensation claims more difficult to process? How many compensation claims were impeded by closing Bad Arolsen?
 
Dogzilla said:
I don't know how I missed this one the first time around. I thought holocaust denial wasn't illegal anywhere or at least not anywhere important.
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Huh? Strawman much?

Where have deniers been prosecuted?
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You tell me. Not difficult to find out. Clue: it's not America.

Were they prosecuted for doing shoddy research too quickly or for something else?
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Generally deniers have been prosecuted for incitement to racial hatred, so the answer is "something else".

The point about shoddy research is just an irony of the whole thing. You'd have thought that if you were a revisionist trying to write something after circa 1990, that you'd try your hardest to be as academic as possible and produce something worthwhile. Instead we have idiots resorting to magazine interviews instead of monographs, or writing fabricated 'dialogues' under pseudonyms and interviewing themselves via a sockpuppet.
 
Saggy said:
That is the amazing thing...

<remainder snipped for brevity's sake>
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What's sad about your comments in the above-quoted post is that you are apparently completely unaware of how crazy it makes you look. You're about one step removed from the guy on the street corner babbling away about how the CIA is reading his mind via his dental fillings.

You're positing vast global conspiracies and expect to be taken seriously?
 
Dogzilla said:
You wouldn't happen to have any evidence of specific individuals in the West German government who took specific actions that restricted access to Bad Arolsen because of the desire to make compensation claims more difficult to process? How many compensation claims were impeded by closing Bad Arolsen?
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Arolsen was closed to historians and to the public at the end of the 70s. That is the source of the trolling routine started by Ernst Zundel which is being recapitulated badly by Saggy.

Arolsen remained open for queries regarding compensation claims, but it handled them extremely slowly, with some queries taking up to five years to answer. The director of the Duesseldorf state archive called Arolsen a "Bermuda triangle" for queries.

http://www.ravensbrueckblaetter.de/alt/archiv/110/12_110.html

By 2004, there were supposedly half a million unanswered queries (most would have been from forced labourers, not Jewish survivors).

http://www.zeit.de/2005/21/ITS_neu

in fact, there's no supposedly about that figure. Download the 2002 annual report here

http://www.its-arolsen.org/de/service/publikationen/jahresberichte/index.html

go to page 22, and look at the numbers. 'Memorial' is a Russian foundation that gathered queries from former Ostarbeiter, 'Minsk' refers to a similar gathering of collective queries from Ostarbeiter and other deportees made after the end of the Cold War.

That is later on. The 70s closure to historians marked an end to cooperation between Arolsen and other institutions, who can be found quoted complaining about this through to the 2007 agreement to open up the archive for historical research.

Before the end of the 70s, you can find documents originally from Arolsen cited in a variety of works, eg if you look at the referencing in Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle, you will see "ISD Arolsen" cited. Czech's original work dates back to the beginning of the 60s. Some documents were copied, eg Yad Vashem got some files, ditto some KZ museums.

The closure to historians and the public came about six years after the Ostpolitik-inspired agreements with East Bloc states for compensation. The ostensible reason was to prevent access to records with personal data which under German privacy law could not be revealed for 100 years. Other countries have similar privacy restrictions on census data and the like.

The desire of the German government to make compensation claims difficult has been a standing feature of Wiedergutmachung since the 1950s. The bureaucracy involved has always been horrendous and decisions sometimes capricious. The point is that documentation is required to prove a case. Finding your name on a transport list or in muster rolls or inmate card indexes is a good way of proving that you were in fact in a concentration camp like you said you were.

In order to function as a tracing service, Arolsen copied a lot of materials from various archives and also took possession of original materials, some of which as mentioned were copied by museums etc in the 60s-70s. This stopped at the end of the 70s, meaning that survivors (of whatever origin) could not necessarily approach another museum/archive to find the documentary proof that they had been interned. No more copies/transfers meant that some of the documents were to be found only in Arolsen, and they also were no longer properly cooperating with other archives/museums/institutions.

The workpace can also be seen on p.22 of the 2002 report. In the 80s, a staff member at Arolsen processed less than 1 query/day. By 2002, this had risen to 3 queries/day/member of staff. Even allowing for the sheer size of the place, they *did* institute card indexes for a reason, and the work-pace is surely far below what one would expect from a civil service records centre.

The centre wasn't even run by the German government directly, it was and is under the ICRC, and always headed by a Swiss director. But the German government funded it, and the staff were almost all German.

So no, I cannot give any hard evidence that the West German government deliberately closed Arolsen, but I can offer a great deal more circumstantial evidence that the German state has had influence over Arolsen than the sodding "Zionists" of Saggy's fantasies.

And it certainly wasn't out of fear of revisionism that Arolsen shut its doors to historians and the public. Privacy restrictions are what they are in Germany as elsewhere. Other agencies managed to cope with them much better than Arolsen did, which simply didn't even bother to try to manage them with non-disclosure agreements of the kind that people have to sign if they visit a legal archive, enjoining them to use pseudonyms or to abbreviate surnames.

Zundel and other deniers trolled over Arolsen because it was "closed" and therefore mysterious, unfortunately it's now open.... and Saggy hasn't changed the record from the good old days of the 1980s when Fat Ernst bestrode the world like the colossal idiot that he was.
 
Saggy said:
That is the amazing thing. Of course I don't know anything about the press in China, the Arab world, etc., but we can devise a simple test to see if any individual paper is controlled by the Zionists. Here it is .... the next time an article relating to the holohoax, or even to WW II, is printed, send a 'letter to the editor' just mentioning a few of the holohoax lies. I 'know' that no such letter will be printed or aired on the BBC or the Toronto Star, or any paper or media outlet in the western world. Which brings us to Bradley Smith who tries to place adds so well disguised that the subject is not even explicitly the holohoax in college newspapers and usually fails. What would happen if he tried to place a small ad in the NYT, for example? The ad would be rejected as hate speech, or some such. In any case it would not be printed.

Here is a sample letter to send to your editor --- "I just read a book by Northwestern professor Arthur Butz titled 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, the Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry' and it says that the leader of the US government Nuremberg trial strategy was Mickey Markus, who after the war went on to be the first General in Israel's army."

I'll guarantee this fact cannot be printed or broadcast in any western media.
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Why would any newspaper publish a letter which invokes a book from 1976? What would possibly be newsworthy about that? Especially when it refers to something that's spelled out in Wikipedia?

You might be better off writing a letter like this:

"Sir,
I just read a book written by Enid Blyton in which it is stated that Noddy had a friend called Big-Ears. Has anyone else noted the startling resemblance between Big Ears and Hilary Clinton, or am I the only one?

yours sincerely,

A. Crank"
 
Saggy said:
Fewer and fewer are fooled by your idiotic lies. If you visit a site like Stormfront, which used to rail against the blacks, I think, you'll see that they now rail against the Jews, and everyone on that site, which is a big audience (if you believe their numbers), knows that the holocaust is a hoax.
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Aaaaand Saggy throws in the towel, and can no longer respond coherently to points being made, except with handwaves and irrelevancies.

Some might say he's always been like that, but I think in the last while our friend has become even more incoherent than usual.

Saggy, ya got me there. It's true that Stormfront has 404 times more members than CODOH, but then Stormfront is 404 times more honest about its leanings than CODOH, and I'm guessing that the average Stormfront chimp's posts get deleted as 'off topic' by deranged moderators about 404 times less often than they do at CODOH.

All that, and Stormfront still only has a 'daily reach' of 0.01 to 0.02% globally. Says so right at the bottom of their homepage. They're proud of this, because they beat out the SPLC website, which doesn't exactly come as much of a surprise to anyone other than loonies.

Alas, it seems that Stormfronters may be committing racial treachery by failing to breed:

Based on internet averages, stormfront.org is visited more frequently by males who are over 65 years old, have no children and browse this site from home.
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:jaw-dropp
 
TSR said:
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The idea that the Zionists can prevent access to the records that do exist is idiocy worthy of .... why, it's idiocy worthy of Saggs.

Who are these Jews you speak of who control Bad Arolson (you've already admitted that you mean Jew when you say 'Zionist', why do you even pretend to keep up the dishonesty)? How about the National Archives in D.C.?

The only obvious lies here have come from you and the other deniers (you know, like your "childrens' zoo" porkie, which every sees that you ran from again...) What do you feel it says about you that posting lies and then running away is the only way you have to try to justify your irrational hate?
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If Zionizts and Zionizm were the titmouzes you purport them to be, at every turn, we wouldn't be dizcuzzing zem.
 
Corsair 115 said:
All media? Everywhere? Across the entire world? Everything from the BBC to The Toronto Star?
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It has to do with flow. When it becomes overflow the Zionist mezzage steps out of the shadows to stem and reroute the tide. With Zuprezzion if necessary.
 
Clayton Moore said:
It has to do with flow. When it becomes overflow the Zionist mezzage steps out of the shadows to stem and reroute the tide. With Zuprezzion if necessary.
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Not really because the underflow of the susantazie diffused the light to the point the shadows remain indistinct and easier to repell
 
Clayton Moore said:
If Zionizts and Zionizm were the titmouzes you purport them to be, at every turn, we wouldn't be dizcuzzing zem.
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One, I never purported anyone to be titmice.

Two, *I* am not the one that brought Zionism into the discussion. Given the delusions that you have stated here regarding Jooosh control of, well, everything it is likely that you will find yourself helpless *not* to bring them into the discussion, and impotent to demonstrate to anyone not sharing your irrational hate that doing so is relevant or supported on the facts and so be reduced to posting the kind of infantile crap you just did regardless of any power or lack thereof they may have.

And then I, or someone else, will point out your blatant dishonesty and irrelevance, just like happens today.

Have you found someone to spoonfeed you even one lie on the THHP site so you can mindlessly parrot it without checking, or are you going to keep running? C'mon, little wannabe: you might actually have a scintilla of a hint of a beginning towards showing some actual backbone if you just once admitted that you let your keyboard run away with you to avoid addressing facts you don't care to acknowledge when you claimed that it was THHP who were lying...
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Quote:
Where have deniers been prosecuted?

Nick Terry answers.


You tell me. Not difficult to find out. Clue: it's not America.
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It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.
 
Clayton Moore said:
It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
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What false accusations? If someone's a Holocaust denier and is exposed as being a Holocaust denier, that does not amount to a false accusation. It amounts, rather, to a true accusation.

America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?
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If they're a bona fide Jew hater, as people here have amply proved themselves to be, then — again — it's a true accusation. It may also be irrelevant and the person's friends, family, employer, etc., may not care. That's a chance every Jew-hater takes, I guess.

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.
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You poor thing, you.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.
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Why don't you take me up on my lunch offer, and I can tell you in person how much I don't give a fat, hairy crap?
 
Clayton Moore said:
It IS America. Persecution is much more effective than prosecution.
America is the land of accusations of antisemitism. Isn't ruining someone's life with false accusations an effective and cost effective deterrent?

The fallout from the effect on the life of a person accused of antisemetism is widespread and threatening.

Fear of ostracization, guilt by association, being shunned, is a great weapon and the Zionist controlled MSM wields it deftly.
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Evidence?
 
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