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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Is Ahmadinejad a Categorical Denier?

I cannot pretend to have read NickTerry’s long, long, long list. I am not sure what its point is. Ahmadinejad was not complaining that revisionists cannot get library cards. I don’t know offhand if any European revisionists have complained that a denial of access to archives has been a crucial handicap. They complain generally because they cannot publish their findings without going to gaol or losing their livelihood. That sort of thing, obviously, is what Ahmadinejad has in mind in the clips I was attempting to paraphrase. He was addressing Europeans, especially Germans. It is no answer to say “anyone in Germany is perfectly free to visit any archive and write what they like – just as long they they do not print things we do not like, just as long as they do not try to found specialist journals we do not like, just as long as they do not organise specialist conferences we do not like.” Research can go nowhere without publications that propagate its findings; in fact research without publication can hardly be said to exist.

It is totalitarian casuistry to argue that censorship is not an impediment to research.
 
It is no answer to say “anyone in Germany is perfectly free to visit any archive and write what they like – just as long they they do not print things we do not like, just as long as they do not try to found specialist journals we do not like, just as long as they do not organise specialist conferences we do not like.”
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Okay, I'll play along -- do cite a *single* denier who has prevented from doing research or writing anything at all for the sole reason that "we do not like" that research or that writing.

And just who is "we", anyway?
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It is totalitarian casuistry to argue that censorship is not an impediment to research.
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And it is denier sophistry to claim censorship exists where it does not.
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I cannot pretend to have read NickTerry’s long, long, long list. I am not sure what its point is. Ahmadinejad was not complaining that revisionists cannot get library cards. I don’t know offhand if any European revisionists have complained that a denial of access to archives has been a crucial handicap. They complain generally because they cannot publish their findings without going to gaol or losing their livelihood. That sort of thing, obviously, is what Ahmadinejad has in mind in the clips I was attempting to paraphrase. He was addressing Europeans, especially Germans. It is no answer to say “anyone in Germany is perfectly free to visit any archive and write what they like – just as long they they do not print things we do not like, just as long as they do not try to found specialist journals we do not like, just as long as they do not organise specialist conferences we do not like.” Research can go nowhere without publications that propagate its findings; in fact research without publication can hardly be said to exist.

It is totalitarian casuistry to argue that censorship is not an impediment to research.

Despite the ready availability of numerous options for research, revisionists haven't actually done very much of it. This holds true whether one looks at continental revisionists, or whether one is talking about Anglo-American revisionists. And that's the problem with complaining about censorship on the continent: it does not, cannot, affect Anglo-Americans.

The guy that truly amazes me in this regard is undoubtedly Faurisson. He was supposedly working on the Holocaust for a decade or more before he went public, yet all he could muster was some feeble drool that wasn't actually that much more sophisticated than Butz. Great eye for a newspaper clipping, though, like a hundred cranks before him.

Faurisson traipsed around the US giving talks to the National Alliance and IHR, yet never thought to stop off at NARA - at any point? He was, after all, visiting the US repeatedly for IHR conferences so there can be no question that he was able to enter the country.

When the Gayssot law was passed, instead of testing the waters with his long-awaited magnum opus and publishing a thorough monograph (or even something like Butz), he gave an intemperate interview to a magazine and got himself martyred. Since when was a magazine interview "research"?

Can you please spell out the details of the charges Faurisson faced for writing in revisionist journals and books since 1990? Here's the French Wiki entry on him. I can't seem to detect any charges ever brought against Faurisson for writing any articles for the Journal of Historical Review or Viertelsjahreshefte fuer freie Geschichtsforschung - did these get edited out by Zionist moles or was Faurisson in fact allowed to drone on endlessly about Pressac and whoever else he took a dislike to?

Revisionists haven't lacked for outlets for their publications over the years. JHR, The Revisionist, The Barnes Review, Inconvenient History; Theses & Dissertations Press; TBR Books; Historical Review Press; Caste Hill Publishers.... there's always been an outlet for publication, even if only on CODOH website.

The thing that no one will own up to is that those publications have been extraordinarily shoddy, the quality of research minimal, and much of the content given over to endless whining, navel gazing and victory dancing.

Time and again, instead of actually spending serious time doing the work, deniers have rushed into print with little more than antisemitic drivel gussied up with some citations plagiarised from the previous guy, and wondered why they are laughed at in one part of the world, and prosecuted in another.

Rudolf supposedly completed the first draft of Vorlesungen zur Zeitgeschichte within about 18 months of becoming a revisionist. The bibliography doesn't even vaguely match the actual citations, and seems to have been lifted wholesale from Staeglich. The sole archival research he did for it was to write to the state attorney's office in Frankfurt and get sent a few copies of statements from the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial. That was all. Within 3-4 years of becoming a revisionist, this guy had written two books, edited another with numerous major contributions from him, and produced several articles, along with various pamphlets, including of course a notorious case where one sockpuppet of Rudolf interviewed Rudolf. Or maybe it was two sockpuppets. It's hard to keep track.

Now, I know that some people think history is a subject you can master in three minutes, but don't you think that this was all a bit, well, rash? That someone who wishes to seriously engage with a subject should spend a decent amount of time mastering it? And you know, do some research? Before they try to get themselves into hot water?

On the other hand, if you're a revisionist in Germany in the early 90s, then maybe you notice that most of your comrades are now getting on a bit, the world is changing, and there's a bit of urgency to the whole thing. And indeed, quite a few authors who contributed to Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte were dead within five years. Of natural causes.


I do have to laugh at the idea that there were actually any revisionists left in Germany by the mid-2000s who were interested in historical or other research. No, the few deniers left were all bleating and blethering about how they had already won. No more research necessary, just pump uo the volume on the ol' propaganda.

Please, tell me with a straight face that Horst Mahler was planning some kind of serious scientific research on the Holocaust.
 
A list of people arrested or otherwise persecuted for telling the truth about the degenerate pack of lies that constitute the holohoax is given here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com/truthtellers

I don't think it's really a matter of research. The lies are obvious, there is nothing essential to investigate at the primary level of the historical events. It would be interesting to know the path of every Jew who was sent to the camps, but I don't think that is going to happen as all the records that still exist are controlled by the Zionists.

It's interesting to note that the Bad Arolsen records were not always closed, and Butz had access when he wrote his book. They were closed shortly after its publication.

The idea that the Zionists can prevent access to the records that do exist and still claim that there are no impediments to research is idiocy worthy of .... why it's idiocy worthy of Nick Terry.
 
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The idea that the Zionists can prevent access to the records that do exist is idiocy worthy of .... why, it's idiocy worthy of Saggs.

Who are these Jews you speak of who control Bad Arolson (you've already admitted that you mean Jew when you say 'Zionist', why do you even pretend to keep up the dishonesty)? How about the National Archives in D.C.?

The only obvious lies here have come from you and the other deniers (you know, like your "childrens' zoo" porkie, which every sees that you ran from again...) What do you feel it says about you that posting lies and then running away is the only way you have to try to justify your irrational hate?
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It would be interesting to know the path of every Jew who was sent to the camps, but I don't think that is going to happen as all the records that still exist are controlled by the Zionists.

If all the records are controlled by the Zionists, how do you know that they even exist?
 
If all the records are controlled by the Zionists, how do you know that they even exist?

60,000,000 documents at Bad Arolsen, not to mention the unlimited military intelligence data. This is not a mystery. All controlled by the Zionists. No question.

The hoax is obvious, blatant, and absurd. The whole notion of gassing 2000 persons in a room at a time is absolutely preposterous. Not even Hollywood will try to depict it. It exists because of COMPLETE ZIONIST CONTROL of the media and the documents.
 
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I cannot pretend to have read NickTerry’s long, long, long list. I am not sure what its point is. Ahmadinejad was not complaining that revisionists cannot get library cards. I don’t know offhand if any European revisionists have complained that a denial of access to archives has been a crucial handicap. They complain generally because they cannot publish their findings without going to gaol or losing their livelihood. That sort of thing, obviously, is what Ahmadinejad has in mind in the clips I was attempting to paraphrase. He was addressing Europeans, especially Germans. It is no answer to say “anyone in Germany is perfectly free to visit any archive and write what they like – just as long they they do not print things we do not like, just as long as they do not try to found specialist journals we do not like, just as long as they do not organise specialist conferences we do not like.” Research can go nowhere without publications that propagate its findings; in fact research without publication can hardly be said to exist.

It is totalitarian casuistry to argue that censorship is not an impediment to research.
Now you know--having not read Nick's list but referring to a point on it--you need to cough up the research that's been prevented in actual countries, the research of actual individuals with names. And, no, it is not enough to say that Revs are a laughingstock in the US, for example, and thus have to resort to whatever they resort to nowadays and that this is unfair and hegemonic and so on. "Publish" your great research at IHR or IH or CODOH. You have the outlets. Talk about specious reasoning: your post takes the cake. I do, however, like how with this
Research can go nowhere . . . in fact research without publication can hardly be said to exist
you argue what so many deniers deny: the parlous state of denial.
 
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The New York Times reported that "6 million" Jews were facing "extermination" in 1921. http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-.../6-million-jews-holocausted-in-russia-in.html So it's easy to see where the sacred 6 million figure came from and it was a long time before world war 2.
The 6 million figure already existed before world war 2 because it has no basis in fact it comes from the gematria (jewish mysticism) - www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-History&ScripturalOriginOfThe6MillionNumber.htm
 
So you're saying that the Holocaust can't have happened because the jews used the number "6,000,000" before world war 2?

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?
 
A list of people arrested or otherwise persecuted for telling the truth about the degenerate pack of lies that constitute the holohoax is given here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com/truthtellers

I don't think it's really a matter of research. The lies are obvious, there is nothing essential to investigate at the primary level of the historical events. It would be interesting to know the path of every Jew who was sent to the camps, but I don't think that is going to happen as all the records that still exist are controlled by the Zionists.

It's interesting to note that the Bad Arolsen records were not always closed, and Butz had access when he wrote his book. They were closed shortly after its publication.

The idea that the Zionists can prevent access to the records that do exist and still claim that there are no impediments to research is idiocy worthy of .... why it's idiocy worthy of Nick Terry.

Butz didn't cite from anything from Arolsen. Real historians were able to cite from Arolsen materials until the late 70s, and many files were copied for Ludwigsburg, Yad Vashem and the Polish archives.

The reason for the closure of Arolsen was due to the desire of the West German government to make compensation claims more difficult to process. Kind of the opposite of what Saggy's "Zionists" would have wanted, isn't it?

As usual, Saggy's blether is contradicted by the actual track record of revisionists in the archives. Irving and Crowell have even been in the USHMM archive, from which they cannot be turned away since it's a federal agency. Irving, Crowell, Butz and Weber went to NARA. Irving, Lindsey and Crowell went to the British Public Record Office. The catch is that the use made of these archives, which are all totally open access, was generally dilettantish. Irving knows them best, but then he's no longer a hardcore denier....
 
60,000,000 documents at Bad Arolsen, not to mention the unlimited military intelligence data. This is not a mystery. All controlled by the Zionists. No question.

Utterly, cluelessly wrong.

Arolsen's contents have been copied not long ago under an international agreement and are being made available in multiple archives in Europe, the US as well as Israel. 11 nations will get copies eventually. In the States, the copies have already gone to USHMM, but the USHMM archive is part of a federal agency. No one can be turned away from USHMM, not even David Irving.

Arolsen was never controlled by "the Zionists". It was controlled by the West German government. The closure at the end of the 1970s was in order to slow down the rate of compensation claims and make them more difficult, since by then, the East Bloc was on speaking terms with West Germany after Brandt's Ostpolitik and this was causing a flood of further claims.

Somehow I suspect that writing this will be like talking to a brick wall; but hopefully people other than Saggy will understand the simple points and realise once again how deluded he is.
 
60,000,000 documents at Bad Arolsen, not to mention the unlimited military intelligence data. This is not a mystery. All controlled by the Zionists. No question.

Didn't happen, sorry.

There was an article published in WW1 proclaiming a massacre of 6,000,000 jews.

60,000,000 documents is 6,000,000 x 10. So no, it can't have happened.
 
All media? Everywhere? Across the entire world? Everything from the BBC to The Toronto Star?

That is the amazing thing. Of course I don't know anything about the press in China, the Arab world, etc., but we can devise a simple test to see if any individual paper is controlled by the Zionists. Here it is .... the next time an article relating to the holohoax, or even to WW II, is printed, send a 'letter to the editor' just mentioning a few of the holohoax lies. I 'know' that no such letter will be printed or aired on the BBC or the Toronto Star, or any paper or media outlet in the western world. Which brings us to Bradley Smith who tries to place adds so well disguised that the subject is not even explicitly the holohoax in college newspapers and usually fails. What would happen if he tried to place a small ad in the NYT, for example? The ad would be rejected as hate speech, or some such. In any case it would not be printed.

Here is a sample letter to send to your editor --- "I just read a book by Northwestern professor Arthur Butz titled 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, the Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry' and it says that the leader of the US government Nuremberg trial strategy was Mickey Markus, who after the war went on to be the first General in Israel's army."

I'll guarantee this fact cannot be printed or broadcast in any western media.
 
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Utterly, cluelessly wrong.

Arolsen's contents have been copied not long ago under an international agreement and are being made available in multiple archives in Europe, the US as well as Israel. 11 nations will get copies eventually. In the States, the copies have already gone to USHMM, but the USHMM archive is part of a federal agency. No one can be turned away from USHMM, not even David Irving.

Arolsen was never controlled by "the Zionists". It was controlled by the West German government. The closure at the end of the 1970s was in order to slow down the rate of compensation claims and make them more difficult, since by then, the East Bloc was on speaking terms with West Germany after Brandt's Ostpolitik and this was causing a flood of further claims.

Somehow I suspect that writing this will be like talking to a brick wall; but hopefully people other than Saggy will understand the simple points and realise once again how deluded he is.

Fewer and fewer are fooled by your idiotic lies. If you visit a site like Stormfront, which used to rail against the blacks, I think, you'll see that they now rail against the Jews, and everyone on that site, which is a big audience (if you believe their numbers), knows that the holocaust is a hoax.
 
Here it is .... the next time an article relating to the holohoax, or even to WW II, is printed, send a 'letter to the editor' just mentioning a few of the holohoax lies.
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Sure, tell them all about the 'childrens' zoo' -- just don't forget to mention that this lie is being promoted by a denier and has no basis in fact.

Tell them about the 'only existing gas chambers' -- but tell them that Dachau doesn't count, because it was actually a shower room, despite the fact that there is not a shred of evidence showing it was ever used as such, despite the fact that showers usually don't have little doors which open to the outside and the showerheads aren't attached to any plumbing. Tell them that again, it is a denier telling this lie.

Tell them about 6 million 'crucified', but also make them aware that the actual figure in that op-ed piece was 6.7 million, because the children don't count. And tell them that roughly 7 million was the Eastern European population of Jews at the time, and don't forget the famine which was rampant then. And then, tell them exactly who is telling this lie, too.

Why, it's Saggs the denier. Why wouldn't such a letter get published?
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Which brings us to Bradley Smith who tries to place adds so well disguised that the subject is not even explicitly the holohoax
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You mean, other than Smith's major premise that the Holocaust didn't happen because three gentlemen who were never directly involved in discovering, liberating or investigating the death camps fail to mention them in personal memoirs?

Yeah, that's not explicit at all :rolleyes:
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in college newspapers and usually fails. What would happen if he tried to place a small ad in the NYT, for example? The ad would be rejected as hate speech, or some such. In any case it would not be printed.
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If by "some such", one means blatant lying in an attempt to begin the whitewashing of war crimes committed by the Nazis, perhaps.

But mainly it won't be printed because the NYT charges relatively big money for their ads, and denier chimps can't pay for it in bananas their mommies gave them, yet believe so strongly in their cause they also won't pony up the cash to even make the attempt.
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If you visit a site like Stormfront, which used to rail against the blacks, I think, you'll see that they now rail against the Jews, and everyone on that site, which is a big audience (if you believe their numbers), knows that the holocaust is a hoax.
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Is stormfront an historical archive?



No?



Then in what way does this address Nick's points regarding your lies about access to / control of historical archives, specifically Bad Arolson?

The only lies you have managed to help document in this thread have been your own, and simply asserting dishonesty on the part of another poster means next to nothing, neither here nor IRL.

What does it say about your thesis that you have to post so many lies to support it, and about your own impotence that those lies are so easily 'sent East'?
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If you visit a site like Stormfront, which used to rail against the blacks, I think, you'll see that they now rail against the Jews,

The typical stormfronter is hard-pressed to chew gum and walk at the same time, but they are quite capable of hating multiple identifiable minorities simultaneously.
 
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