Well, there is a long list of countries that have expelled the Jews .... here tis ..
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm
so, for them to generate murderous animosity is not unusual. Why do you pretend otherwise? Even Jews acknowledge this, see for example B. Ginsburg's 'The Fatal Embrace, Jews and the State', when they're not posting gibberish on the internet.
Note: I didn't say or imply that the Lithuanian Jews were partisans, but that they were collaborators during the previous Soviet occupation. This is just a variation on Ginsburg's thesis, btw.
Your reply isn't coherent.
1. What does your list of countries expelling Jews have to do with the questions I asked you, for example, about tackling Sakowicz and Kruk? Have you read their accounts? Why do you find them not credible? These issues are entirely independent from discriminatory actions different countries may have taken and they related directly to the topic -- credible witnesses to elements of the Holocaust -- which we were discussing. You are of course free to reply to specific questions with non sequiturs, but your doing so makes your arguments even more idiotic than they started out.
2. You wrote
We even saw a pic of a Lithuanian standing in the midst of a bunch of corpses. But the hoax is in the camps, you know, the gas chambers, the six million, not partisans killed on the eastern front or Lithuanians killing Soviet collaborators.
Since the death dealer was a Lithuanian in Kovno, and we were discussing Jews shot in Vilna, I took your reference to Soviet collaborators, weak as it was, to refer to Kovno. I may have had in my mind other denier arguments regarding the slaughter at Ponar and attributing it to anti-partisan actions (e.g., ralphgordon at Rodoh). So I stand corrected: you are only confused about the issue of partisans in areas other than Lithuania. I don't see how that helps you, but be my guest. Some Jews, and some Lithuanians, of course, were part of the Sovietization of Lithuania. Some Jews and some Lithuanians, too, were expelled to Siberia in June 1941 by the Soviet authorities as threats to the Sovietized regime. Even before these expulsions on the eve of the war, Jews in Lithuania were targeted by the Soviets as capitalists, major Zionist organizations were dissolved by the authorities, and some Yiddish newspapers closed. Your statements are worse than one-sided. In any event, what does any of this have to do with the slaughter of whole families of Jews in Vilna, ordinary people trying to make a living and to live out their lives, regardless of what regime held political power in the country?
Testimony at the Einsatzgruppen trial, from the defendants in their defense, would differ to your characterization of the mass slaughter of Jews as anti-partisan, although the defendants tried to offer this defense:
Erwin Schulz, head of EK-5 under Rasch, said the following on the stand:
- the killings of civilians were military actions undertaken in war
- the killings were legal because they didn't violate the international laws of warfare
- he had not heard of a Fuhrer-order for civilian murders in the eastern campaigns, thus his actions were not covered by the Fuhrer's orders
- the order to murder
all civilian Jews in the massacres came to him in mid-August 1941 from Otto Rasch (EG-C)
Defendant Willy Seibert (EG-D under Ohlendorf), in questioning about his awareness of the criminality of murdering unarmed civilians, testified as follows at trial:
- he "simply didn't know anymore" what was illegal and what was legal in terms of killings during wartime
- killing based on superior orders during war must not be murder
- still, if ordered by superiors to shoot his parents, "I would not do so . . . it is inhuman to ask a son to shoot his parents," implying that it was not inhuman to ask an Aryan to shoot Jews, his squad having done this
While testifying in the same trial, defendant Werner Braune, who headed EK11b, said
- there was a Fuhrerbefehl to murder Jews
- the reason for Hitler's order was to protect the security of Germany because "Jews in the East were the decisive bearers of communism and its illegal manner of fighting"
- "the vast majority [of Jews] supported Bolshevism"
- true, if the majority of Jews supported Bolshevism, a minority didn't
- the minority of Jews not supporting Bolshevism was "ten, twenty, or thirty percent"
- these Jewish non-supporters of Bolshevism were killed along with the supporters of Bolshevism because, when it came to saving them, "the possibility did not exist"
Defendant Adolf Ott (EK 7b) testified that
- his Kommando shot only Jews who were proven to be engaged in partisan actions or sabotage
- despite this stipulation, "every Jew who was apprehended had to be shot. Never mind whether he was a perpetrator or not."
The EGs typically rounded up Jews from ghettos and towns, Jews who like those of Vilna were simply trying to get by, and killed them just as they killed Jews who were involved in opposing the Germans.
