Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Saggy]

Even if you went without an answer until doomsday and were ignored, it would mean nothing of the sort. The credibility of eyewitnesses to Nazi mass murder doesn't depend on whether one poster responds to your very silly question/challenge.

It also doesn't depend on whether there is a "best witness", or a best Jewish witness, for a number of reasons which ought to be obvious to everyone, but which have apparently eluded you.

Firstly, you asked for an eyewitness "to the holohoax", which sane people would translate as the Holocaust. Sane people's understanding of the Holocaust includes mass extermination by shooting, deaths in ghettos, labour camps and concentration camps, deaths in transit en route to the camps, shootings on arrival at places like Treblinka, and gassings at Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz, Majdanek, Semlin and Maly Trostinets along with many other places. By definition there cannot be one witness to all these sites.

Secondly, the events were not only witnessed by Jews, but by Germans, Poles, Ukrainians and other nationalities. In a number of cases we don't have any Jewish eyewitnesses to these killings because they, er, died. Where there are Jewish survivors, we can often contrast their perspectives and vantage points with the perspectives and observations of non-Jews.

Thirdly, the events were also documented more than chimp deniers seem to realise, which further corroborates the eyewitness testimonies.

Finally, there are rather a lot of eyewitnesses to Nazi mass murder. I know of more than 300 for the Reinhard camps, of whom more than 100 were Jewish survivors. Their credibility can only be assessed collectively, not individually, in parallel, not in series. The number of witnesses to Auschwitz is in the low tens of thousands.

But you know, keep blethering about Mueller and Zisblatt and Wiernik, it sure makes you look well informed and knowledgeable.

Bottom line, Nick Terry cannot name one (1) credible Jewish witness to the holohoax.

Not to feel bad Nick, Yehuda Bauer, with all the resources at Yad Vashem, couldn't find one either. S. Spielberg, with his Hollywood millions, couldn't find one. So, you should feel no undue chagrin at your failure.

But Nick, what about Abraham Bomba, Yankel Wiernik, Elihu Rosenberg, Elie Wiesel, Filip Meuller, Irene Zizblatt, et. al.; why there is no shortage of Jewish witnesses ... but unfortunately for the hoax, they are all obvious pathological liars, and anyone who actually reads the garbage they have written will know it. That is, you don't have to be a scholar of the holohoax like Dr. Nick Terry to know that these people are degenerate liars, you only have to read the crap they have written.

 

[uke2se]

Bottom line, Nick Terry cannot name one (1) credible Jewish witness to the holohoax.

No, as he said he could name hundreds of credible witnesses to the holocaust. He just can't be bothered to throw pearls before swine.

What's interesting is that you can't name one credible nazi guard or otherwise involved party who denies the holocaust.

 

[LemmyCaution]

snip << double post >>

 

[LemmyCaution]

Bottom line, Nick Terry cannot name one (1) credible Jewish witness to the holohoax.

Nick can name 100s, of course, which is what he said. I named two credible witnesses to mass executions, one of them Jewish, both of whom Saggy ignored. Typical fare, another weekend in la-la land.

I always find the conflation of credibility with honesty a somewhat sad denier trick, by the way,

 

[Saggy]

Nick can name 100s, of course, which is what he said.

Nope, he said there were hundreds, but that their credibility could not be established 'individually'. I.e., we have to infer the truth of their absurd lies because there are so many of them. LOL. Complete idiocy. Thousands have reported alien landings, do we believe them? No, one thousand lies doesn't add up to truth, except in the holohoax.

 

[Wroclaw]

Nope, he said there were hundreds, but that their credibility could not be established 'individually'. I.e., we have to infer the truth of their absurd lies because there are so many of them. LOL. Complete idiocy. Thousands have reported alien landings, do we believe them? No, one thousand lies doesn't add up to truth, except in the holohoax.

That's a thoroughly idiotic statement.

 

[Saggy]

That's a thoroughly idiotic statement.

Terry's statement was idiotic, of course, you should read it, he is the one who says the witnesses' credibility must be determined collectively, not individually. LOL. COMPLETE IDIOCY. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when practice to deceive !

 

[Clayton Moore]

Of course I have read Mueller's book. I won't reply to outrages to your common sense, which most likely have to do with the limits of your mental apparatus and not what is possible or happens in reality. But my point, which you ignore, was that you wrote, which is daft on at least two grounds, first, you got the title wrong; second, nonfiction books are customarily titled by publishers not authors. You have yourself so worked up that you are making ridiculous claims.

So the lies and people believing them and so on and so forth, the basic reason for and consequence of those lies means nothing to you?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Nick can name 100s, of course, which is what he said. I named two credible witnesses to mass executions, one of them Jewish, both of whom Saggy ignored. Typical fare, another weekend in la-la land.

I always find the conflation of credibility with honesty a somewhat sad denier trick, by the way,

100s? Out of over 4 million identified "survivors?"

 

[Cyrix686]

Right and according to "Saggy," the Holocaust can best be compared to UFOs. Poor old "Saggy," laughing away to himself, mangling the names of book titles, misquoting generally. Maintaining high levels of idiocy with that amusing typical lack of self awareness that deniers upon this thread have. Not to mention his now hilariously missing the entire point of Nick Terry's post. And no matter how often it was pointed out to these chaps that there is splendid idiocy in their continuous enclosure of everything in "inverted commas," they just cannot help themselves. Like Clayton...

Keep tugging away at Zisblatt "Saggy."

 

[LemmyCaution]

So the lies and people believing them and so on and so forth, the basic reason for and consequence of those lies means nothing to you?

This post makes no sense. What are you asking me?

 

[LemmyCaution]

100s? Out of over 4 million identified "survivors?"

Looking back Nick said that there were 10s of 1000s of witnesses for Auschwitz.

I don't know how you define a survivor nor how many survivors gave testimony. But, no, I do not think Nick could name millions, nor even every one of the 10s of 1000s for Auschwitz alone, and what does that matter, that one person doesn't have the time to accumulate knowledge of every single person's wartime experience? I couldn't name millions of soldiers who fought and died in WW2, nor of the workers who poured into American war industries to defeat the Nazis, nor Soviet civilians who died in the fighting, nor victims at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but that doesn't undermine the reality of the war.

Also, Nick was asked to name just one--and said that he knows of many more. Nick can name many, many credible eyewitnesses. How many are needed to satisfy deniers? Millions, all chanting the same exact testimony like Moonies?

I am not sure what the point of this counting game is. Could you explain the point you're trying to make?

 

[Saggy]

Looking back Nick said that there were 10s of 1000s of witnesses for Auschwitz.

Well, I"m still waiting for the name of one.

And, I'm not the only one waiting. Bradley Smith waged a program for months trying to get the holochoax community to cough up the name of one (1) person gassed at Auschwitz, with some verification of that fact. Not a peep was heard.

But Nick has developed a new calculus of truth .... just get enough persons to lie, and they can collectively establish their credibility and the truth.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Well, I"m still waiting for the name of one.

And, I'm not the only one waiting. Bradley Smith waged a program for months trying to get the holochoax community to cough up the name of one (1) person gassed at Auschwitz, with some verification of that fact. Not a peep was heard.

But Nick has developed a new calculus of truth .... just get enough persons to lie, and they can collectively establish their credibility and the truth.

And I gave you a credible Jewish witness paired with a credible Polish eyewitness to open air shootings.

 

[TSR]

So the lies and people believing them and so on and so forth, the basic reason for and consequence of those lies means nothing to you?

.
Wrong. It apparently means nothing to you, given the lies you yourself have posted, been called on, and then have run from.

"Hello, Kettle? This is Pot. How's it going? Oh, pretty well, pretty well... Listen, I just phoned to tell you that you're black."
.

 

[Saggy]

And I gave you a credible Jewish witness paired with a credible Polish eyewitness to open air shootings.

We even saw a pic of a Lithuanian standing in the midst of a bunch of corpses. But the hoax is in the camps, you know, the gas chambers, the six million, not partisans killed on the eastern front or Lithuanians killing Soviet collaborators.

 

[Wroclaw]

All of this is a colossal waste of time. A person like Saggy is completely unreasonable. All the evidence in the world wouldn't get him to change his mine because he's already convinced. Therefore, to argue with him is to expend energy best used elsewhere.

You could hand him a letter in Hitler's own hand that read "Kill all the Jews you can find. Use poison gas, but be sure to shoot some also. Stop when you get to six million or so." And still, he'd find some reason to dismiss it.

I'm putting him back on ignore, personally. I suggest everyone else do the same.

 

[Wroclaw]

Good thing I caught Saggy's most recent post before putting him on ignore.

Only a person with the closest resemblance to a posterior sphincter would make a comment such as he did about supposed "partisans".

 

[Wroclaw]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 3.

 

[LemmyCaution]

We even saw a pic of a Lithuanian standing in the midst of a bunch of corpses. But the hoax is in the camps, you know, the gas chambers, the six million, not partisans killed on the eastern front or Lithuanians killing Soviet collaborators.

No, I don't know.

To begin with, there were not six million Jews murdered during the enitre Holocaust in all its phases and elements, let alone in the camps. To get to the 5+ million victims, you have to understand the slaughter in the East, which was mainly by rifle and gas van. I didn't post the photo of the death-dealer of Kovno, which is another very weighty argument against your inanity, the documentation for these atrocities, carried out by Lithuanians, coming from German military eyewitnesses, and Kovno is some miles distant from Vilna, which I wrote about. The mass murders described by Kruk and Sakowicz had nothing to do with anti-partisan actions. The only "partisans" operating in the area at the time were pro-German squads which helped with the extermination of Vilna ghetto Jews, men, women, and children, pulled from the ghetto and murdered in the woods at Ponar. I will await your proof that those killed were partisans, as you claim.

Another point I'd like to hear about is how you can be so ignorant of the "official narrative" you claim not to agree with. How can you deny or want to revise something with which you have at best glancing familiarity?