Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[LemmyCaution]

What I hate is a group Jews, very rich and powerful Jews, who wreak social and financial havoc for their personal gain, that hide underneath the skirt of all Jewish people. I'm not fond of the IRA, Russian or Italian or whatever mafia but I don't hate all Irish, Russians, or Italians.

The successful Jews, those whom banned (im)poster Gene Alley was going on about, were like mafia or the IRA?

 

[catscratch]

antis everywhere... part 2

One common theme that the Holocaust spotlights is that there are no bad Jews. Whenever it's obvious that a Jew(s) has done something BAD a swarm of good Jews will step up and defend him, point out that others have done much worse, it wasn't against the law, it's capitalism, accuse his accuser of hating all Jews and possibly that the accuser deserves a thrashing or worse.

Begging the question, why do the good Jewish people defend and protect the bad Jewish people so vociferously?

Not Benjamin Freedman, not Jack Bernstein, not this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dSHl3C9kgY

Notice the antisemite cheap shot... and who it was said to.

 

[LemmyCaution]

One common theme that the Holocaust spotlights is that there are no bad Jews. Whenever it's obvious that a Jew(s) has done something BAD a swarm of good Jews will step up and defend him, point out that others have done much worse, it wasn't against the law, it's capitalism, accuse his accuser of hating all Jews and possibly that the accuser deserves a thrashing or worse.

Begging the question, why do the good Jewish people defend and protect the bad Jewish people so vociferously?

This is blatantly erroneous. Many survivors and their families, in fact, along with some scholars have been very, very hard, for example, on Jews who served in the Jewish Councils, the Jewish police, and the Sonderkommandos. To take just a Holocaust-related example. The good scholarship about the Holocaust does not create unidimensional caricatures of either Jews or Germans. That Jews do not exhibit the same spectrum of human characteristics is not a common theme that the Holocaust spotlights, in your quaint phrase.

 

[Cyrix686]

I feel bad about Gene getting thrown off like that for glovepuppetry. Never mind though, now catscratch is going on and on about the joooos in a typically obsessed manner instead.

 

[Wroclaw]

Here's my point: Ehrenburg generated bloodlust. He planted even that ONE image of rape and murder in their minds

You can keep saying Ehrenburg urged rape, but it won't make it true.

along with the word "Kill", ad nauseum. Human nature took it from there. In effect, he loaded their guns and took aim for them. All they had to do was pull the trigger.

That's right. The Nazis invaded the USSR and the Red Army fought back with everything they had, and thank God they did.

I said MOST have gone missing... are you saying that they're ALL there? Every propaganda leaflet? How cool is that? Research!

You can find Red Star and Pravda, certainly.

This is you, saying that "the vast majority of Red Army troops committing rape" were Christians, right? My point here is that they weren't Christians, in fact, they were the VOKhR and similar monsters.

Nevertheless, they were Christians, at least nominally so.

How can it be labeled as quoting out of context, when the context is the Christian character and what happened to them. One pearl here and another pearl there, still add up to two pearls. Solzhenitsyn doesn't write chronologically, but he scatters his pearls throughout his books and pages, leaving his readers to do the much of the math for themselves.

It's patently dishonest to quote things the way you did, and you know it. You skipped BACK in the text by hundreds of pages and indicated so only with an ellipsis.

No doubt. Many scholars still revere the Monster Stalin. Scholarship isn't necessarily nice... or honest, sadly.

You're going to have to come to terms w/the idea that Solzhenitsyn wasn't right about everything.

***He talked to everybody he met in GULag--he says so in great detail, in Volume 1 of Gulag Archipelago--many of whom used to be on the inside... and subsequently had reason to be bitter... and extremely forthcoming. When you're IN government, such is not the case... if you want to keep your job... or your freedom.

Please cite, then, the person who told Solzhenitsyn about Ehrenburg. Solzhenitsyn was arrested before the war was over; Ehrenburg did not fall out of favor with Stalin until after Potsdam.

From my post:
"Do you think that only Solzhenitsyn's sons know English and Russian? Since the book IS available in Russian, the English WILL learn it. The demand is there... despite the nay-saying of the press and its satellite drones."

So then, what you meant was that I have no AUTHORIZED version of 200 Years Together. And To Think, We're Both Speaking English...

That's correct: No authorized translation, which means that his kids are likely to sue if/when one that they and their mother have not authorized is published.

But in the meantime, allow me to blow your mind: Solzhenitsyn's second wife (mother of the three sons) is half-Jewish.

 

[Wroclaw]

Someone who is antiMuslim would also be antisemitic... so much for the whole war on terror scenario, huh?

Nope. First of all, most Muslims are not Arabs, and it's Arabs who are Semites, not Indonesians, South Asians, etc.

Second of all, the word was coined specifically to refer to Jews.

And how about Keturah's children?... hating them is antisemitic as well. Do you care about THESE Semites, uke?

And so are Lot's, Isaac's, Esau's, etc.'s question. What of it?

Or do you have a more narrow view in mind? Do you think Orthodox Judahites who are antiZionist are antisemitic?

I think that's a better question for you to answer.

Or are you just an antiChristian?

If that "Christian" is you, then yes.

 

[Wroclaw]

So says abaddon, the critical thinker.

Don't forget Cronos and Mantas:

That one's for you, Dr. Terry

 

[VonKleist]

Don't forget Cronos and Mantas:

[qimg]http://www.nuclearblastusa.com/nb/images/band/290/lowres/bandimage/VenomPhoto.jpg[/qimg]

That one's for you, Dr. Terry

Now they were certainly antichristian.

Altogether now:
♪ ♫ Countess. . . . Bathory. . . .♪ ♫

 

[Dogzilla]

Snipped.

On the contrary the simple and boring reason "why" is that there is absolutely no need whatsoever to hop to skip and to jump through hoops to satisfy the weird whims and elastic and obsessive demands of Jew haters and "Revisionists."

Jumping through hoops to satisfy the weird whims and elastic and obsessive demands of Jew haters and revisionists would be a stupid thing to do. Luckily nobody is asking you to do that. All we're asking is that you give us some evidence that an impossible event did occur.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Jumping through hoops to satisfy the weird whims and elastic and obsessive demands of Jew haters and revisionists would be a stupid thing to do. Luckily nobody is asking you to do that. All we're asking is that you give us some evidence that an impossible event did occur.

Irrelevant to the point.

The point is that no one involved in these matters considers what you think reasonable to be reasonable. There is no recognized controversy about the mass murder at the AR sites; thus, the reason for not digging the place up is not what you stated -- "because they know they won't find any" evidence of mass murder; rather, the reason is that the matter is considered settled. Now, you may disagree, but please don't lie about the attitude and reasoning of others.

As to "some evidence," since so much has been offered in so many places, starting with Roberto Muehlenkamp's blogging at HC, the ball is in your court to define evidence which you will consider acceptable.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I feel bad about Gene getting thrown off like that for glovepuppetry. Never mind though, now catscratch is going on and on about the joooos in a typically obsessed manner instead.

Yeah, now we'll never get to hear a repetition of "Judea Declares War on Germany," an exaggerated review of Untermyer's boycott campaign in the US reacting to the Nazis, and possibly move onto a recapitulation of Kaufman's sad self-published pamphlet and the desperation of Goebbels & Company in such matters. Sigh. These reruns, low-brow as they may be, always fill me with such nostalgia.

We won't get all this unless someone else steps in . . .

 

[uke2se]

Someone who is antiMuslim would also be antisemitic... so much for the whole war on terror scenario, huh?

And how about Keturah's children?... hating them is antisemitic as well. Do you care about THESE Semites, uke?

Or do you have a more narrow view in mind? Do you think Orthodox Judahites who are antiZionist are antisemitic?

Or are you just an antiChristian?

Everything to avoid facing what you are, eh catscratch? Nobody here hates muslims. Nobody here hates Christians. You and others like you, on the other hand, hate Jews. Why is that? Is it because they killed that carpenter with delusions of grandure about 2000 years ago? Can't you just let it go?

 

[uke2se]

Yup, you're antiChrist ian, uke.

Nope. I'm an atheist. Big difference.

You're an antisemite though.

By the way, calling me antichrist isn't what I consider a good insult. Rather funny, though.

 

[TSR]

What I hate is a group Jews, very rich and powerful Jews, who wreak social and financial havoc for their personal gain, that hide underneath the skirt of all Jewish people. I'm not fond of the IRA, Russian or Italian or whatever mafia but I don't hate all Irish, Russians, or Italians.

.
Which ignores the fact that most of other entities you mention are *criminal* enterprises, and we never hear a peek out of you regarding very rich and powerful non-criminal non-Jews who arguably do the same things for their personal gain.

Rather irrational, then, to deny the Holocaust unless you mean to claim that rich and powerful Jews killed 6m of their own on a gamble that they personally would profit.
.

 

[abaddon]

So says abaddon, the critical thinker.

Did you cherry pick one response?

Yes, you did.

Did you have any meaningful response?

No, you didn't.

Have you any evidence for your sky daddy?

No, you don't.

 

[Wroclaw]

Now they were certainly antichristian.

Altogether now:
♪ ♫ Countess. . . . Bathory. . . .♪ ♫

I'm partial to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjS449yQI8

{singing} "Sa-tan-a-chist!"

 

[dafydd]

According to Prophecy, only 144,000 of will be the virgins. The rest of the Hebrews, who are not evil, will be carried home as sons and daughters after the war... not the whole world will die at Armageddon, sir.

What does this insane fantasy have to do with the Holocaust?

 

[abaddon]

Believe whatever you want to believe, but I have the right to stop you from telling lies about me.

FYI, any time you say "all" it's a sure bet that you're lying about something.

Yet oddly, the word "all" does not appear in the quote you made. Why?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Whenever it's obvious that a Jew(s) has done something BAD a swarm of good Jews will step up and defend him, point out that others have done much worse, it wasn't against the law, it's capitalism........

Meyer Lansky.
Although the Israeli Law of Return allows any Jew to settle in the State of Israel, it excludes those with criminal pasts. Two years after Lansky fled to Israel, Israeli authorities deported him back to the U.S

You don't read books do you?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Meyer Lansky.
Although the Israeli Law of Return allows any Jew to settle in the State of Israel, it excludes those with criminal pasts. Two years after Lansky fled to Israel, Israeli authorities deported him back to the U.S

You don't read books do you?

Common knowledge.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky#Later_years

Attempted escape to Israel and trial

In 1970, Lansky fled to Herzliya Pituah, Israel, to escape federal tax evasion charges. Although the Israeli Law of Return allows any Jew to settle in the State of Israel, it excludes those with criminal pasts. Two years after Lansky fled to Israel, Israeli authorities deported him back to the U.S. However, the government's best shot at convicting Lansky was with the testimony of loan shark Vincent "Fat Vinnie" Teresa, an informant with little or no credibility. The jury was unreceptive and Lansky was acquitted in 1974.

http://www.wake-up-america.net/jewish_and_israeli_spies.htm

The total number of Jewish/Israeli spies convicted or expelled from the United States of America exceeds the number of spies convicted for all other ethnic groups.


"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared." (Cicero)





Katya and Sayanin: A Katya is a Jewish spy. The Sayanin are those Jews resident in the host nation who provide support and assistance to the spies in their missions. In 1979 an ex-CIA official said "Mossad can go to any distinguished American Jew and ask for help." (9/3/1979, Newsweek) Some years ago an analysis of the Forbes list of billionaires found that almost 40% were Jews. Did they have some assistance from Jerusalem in acquiring their money? Were the 200 Israeli spies expelled after 9/11 the only spies they have in this country? If it were any other country and we caught 200 spies what would we have done? Why did the spy story only run on one network? Why did the spy story disappear from the Fox News website?

As Jews make up about 2% of our population and blacks make up about 14% there should be 6 times as many black spies as there are Jewish spies wouldn't you think? I can't think of any black spies.