Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Wroclaw]

And Saggy? Hannover IS Moderator3.

 

[Wroclaw]

here's a case in point:
SevenUp, show us how it's used "against posters that the 'administration', in particular 'Hannover', disfavors." No one put those words in your mouth, you said them. Now back them up.



- Hannover

Wake up ! Moderator 3 just stated that Fetzer had broken the rule about responding to 'questions' and therefore should 'man up' or leave the thread. Are you really this unaware of what is happening in this very thread ? I'll spell it out - Moderator 3 is telling some you disfavor to leave the thread using the rule of unanswered questions.

[/quote]

 

[Clayton Moore]

What was the violence on the "Jewish side" in 1939-1941?

The violence was the history of Communist violence in Russia against citizens under their control. A history that survived long enough to sire(Jewish Communist Irving Kristol) neoconservatism.

 

[Wroclaw]

The violence was the history of Communist violence in Russia against citizens under their control. A history that survived long enough to sire(Jewish Communist Irving Kristol) neoconservatism.

Well that closes the case on you being a knuckle-dragging anti-Semite, I guess.

 

[Wroclaw]

Clayton, I'll give you fifty bucks if you can tell me what distinguishes neoconservatism from other types of conservatism.

 

[Wroclaw]

Oh, and one more thing: The Soviets, by 1924, had outlawed only one language from being spoken in the USSR. Can you name it? Extra points if you can tell me the two reasons why they outlawed it.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The violence was the history of Communist violence in Russia against citizens under their control. A history that survived long enough to sire(Jewish Communist Irving Kristol) neoconservatism.

I see...so the "Clayton Moore Working Theory" is that.....

Russians, Lenin(non-jewish lawyer) & Stalin (trainee christian priest) forced Germans Rosa Luxemburg (Jewish) & Karl Liebknecht's (non-Jewish) Spartacists to aim towards setting up the 70's & 80's neoconservative movement in the USA (which has died out)

Could you expand on this theory?
How does the German Nazi conservative regime fit into your "working theory"

 

[dvictr]

did Hitler blame Jews for starting WW2?

 

[Clayton Moore]

You live in Philadelphia? We simply must have lunch...

Mace's Crossing?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton, I'll give you fifty bucks if you can tell me what distinguishes neoconservatism from other types of conservatism.

Neoconservatism is little more than an overlay or replacement of conservative foreign policy with an aggressive imperialistic/communist style foreign policy. Kristol and other American communists recognized it was time to jump ship as the American Left was going nowhere so they followed the power money to the Republican party.

You buy lunch and drinks and pay me a C-note. I'll need the extra fifty for a cab home.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Well that closes the case on you being a knuckle-dragging anti-Semite, I guess.

I truly didn't see Irving Kristol coming. LOL. The violence, says Clayton Moore, on the Jewish side, which had to do with incarcerating Polish Jews in ghettos, was that the Soviet Communists were Jews and committed violent acts against their citizens. Polish Jews, he seems to be saying, were contained in ghettos during 1939-1941 (and subject, along with Poles who might help them, to the death penalty) because of acts committed by Soviet Communists, who, at the time, were party to the Non-Aggression Pact with Germany. Oy vay.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

did Hitler blame Jews for starting WW2?

Yup:

„Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen. Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muss die notwendige Folge sein. Diese Frage ist ohne jede Sentimentalität zu betrachten. Wir sind nicht dazu da, Mitleid mit den Juden, sondern nur Mitleid mit unserem deutschen Volk zu haben. Wenn das deutsche Volk jetzt wieder im Ostfeldzug an die 160 000 Tote geopfert hat, so werden die Urheber dieses blutigen Konflikts dafür mit ihrem Leben bezahlen müssen.“

To summarize: Hitler said, the jews will pay, if they create another world war and this world war is world war 2. So the jews have to pay with their LIVES for it.

Before some hitler hugging moron tries to tell me, that he just meant a special group of jews:

„Man darf in diesen Dingen keine Sentimentalität obwalten lassen. Die Juden würden, wenn wir uns ihrer nicht erwehren würden, uns vernichten. Es ist ein Kampf um Leben und Tod zwischen der arischen Rasse und dem jüdischen Bazillus.“

So in other words: It's the jewish race s. the aryan race.

Hans Frank wrote something similiar:

Der Führer sprach einmal das Wort aus: wenn es der vereinigten Judenschaft wieder gelingen wird, einen Weltkrieg zu entfesseln, dann werden die Blutopfer nicht nur von den in den Krieg gehetzten Völkern gebracht werden, sondern dann wird der Jude in Europa sein Ende gefunden haben.

It's the same thing Goebbels wrote.

@ Saggy:

Hey, Saggs, I still miss your answer to that:

For the "Leichenkeller I" in Krema II and III:
What was the purpose of these two rooms?
And yes, that means you have to present evidence in form of testimony, documents, findings of scientific studies and so on.

Why would these rooms need shower heads and a gas tight door?
Why would they need to be preheated?
Why would there by a "Auskleideraum" in the same building?
Why are they located in a crematory anyway? What is the point of a shower or a delousing chamber in a crematory?
Why would their walls contain cyanide residues?

I was totally expecting you to answer that, since you deniers always answer critical questions... Yeah.

 

[BaaBaa]

The violence was the history of Communist violence in Russia against citizens under their control. A history that survived long enough to sire(Jewish Communist Irving Kristol) neoconservatism.

So, the Jews of Western Europe were Bolshevik moles? The Jews of the Channel Islands were in the pay of Trotsky?

That's ludicrous.

 

[Wroclaw]

You buy lunch and drinks and pay me a C-note. I'll need the extra fifty for a cab home.

Yes on lunch and drinks, no on an extra $100.

 

[Saggy]

So what you are left with - at best - is a misrepresentation by Polish museum guides in the early 1990s, and one that probably comes more from ignorance than from any sinister plot to contradict their own government's report in 1946.

It's idiocy like this that causes you to lose even a shred of credibility, despite your library of books on the holohoax. I confess, I wish you would up the level of your game, to make it more interesting. But, I can see the impossibility of that given the reality.

There is no need for a substantive response other than to repeat what was already posted, that is that the hoax gas chamber at Auschwitz was presented 'as found' up until the hoax was exposed to the world by David Cole in 1992, as verified by Cole's video of an actual guided tour, and by the book by eminent holohoax scholar R. van Pelt. Besides, everyone knows this is true, despite your laughable reference to Polish report from 1945 written before the hoax gas chamber was constructed.

This discussion is too idiotic for words, as Nick Terry repeatedly proves that he'll perform any sort of logical contortions necessary to keep the Zionists happy.

You dismiss a video of an actual tour, because ... ???? ... oh, the truth hurts ....... but somehow overlook the book by van Pelt, so, I'll just remind you ....

"When Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its component parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."

 

[Wroclaw]

Interested parties should read this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=83...nsformed into a museum after the war"&f=false

The relevant portion begins on page 119.

 

[Nick Terry]

It's idiocy like this that causes you to lose even a shred of credibility, despite your library of books on the holohoax. I confess, I wish you would up the level of your game, to make it more interesting. But, I can see the impossibility of that given the reality.

There is no need for a substantive response other than to repeat what was already posted, that is that the hoax gas chamber at Auschwitz was presented 'as found' up until the hoax was exposed to the world by David Cole in 1992, as verified by Cole's video of an actual guided tour, and by the book by eminent holohoax scholar R. van Pelt. Besides, everyone knows this is true, despite your laughable reference to Polish report from 1945 written before the hoax gas chamber was constructed.

This discussion is too idiotic for words, as Nick Terry repeatedly proves that he'll perform any sort of logical contortions necessary to keep the Zionists happy.

You dismiss a video of an actual tour, because ... ???? ... oh, the truth hurts ....... but somehow overlook the book by van Pelt, so, I'll just remind you ....

"When Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its component parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."

I'm increasingly at a loss as to what you think you're achieving here, Saggy. You've actually just shot yourself in the foot by quoting Pelt/Dwork from 1996. Let me spell it out for you

1. there is currently (in the 2000s) a sign by the old crematorium in the Auschwitz museum saying it's a reconstruction

2. In 2000, one of the leading experts on Auschwitz, Robert Van Pelt, submitted an expert report for the Irving-Lipstadt libel trial, which stated the building was a reconstruction, the report is readily available online and has been for more than 5 years.

3. In 1996, Robert Van Pelt co-authored a book with Deborah Dwork which stated it's a reconstruction, the book is probably the 2nd best-selling work on Auschwitz in print.

4. In 1989, Jean-Claude Pressac exhaustively detailed the history of the old crematorium and documented the reconstruction. In 1993, he published a shorter book repeating this. The 1989 book is readily available online and has been for many years.

5. In 1946, Jan Sehn published the official Polish report saying the old crematorium had been converted to an air raid shelter. In the 1950s the report was reissued in an expanded version and was basically the most readily available work on Auschwitz until the 1980s. The reissue also said the crematorium had been converted. The 1946 report has been available online for about a decade.

What you are left with is a moment about 15-20 years ago after the collapse of communism, when the Auschwitz museum was telling researchers like Pressac one thing, and not making much effort to tell visitors the same thing. Now it does.

But anyone with half a brain who reads one of the standard works on Auschwitz (Sehn, Pressac, Pelt, Pelt/Dwork) can find out this information for themselves. It wasn't being covered up.

Museums are not the historical record, Saggy. They are not the be-all and end-all of history. So you'll have to forgive me if I fail to give a flying monkeys' about what a museum in Poland did or did not do 15-20 years ago.

The longer we move on from the 1990s, the more pointless this gambit is going to be. You need new material, badly, because repeating this non-point over and over and over again is simply tedious, and pointless.

 

[Saggy]

I'm increasingly at a loss as to what you think you're achieving here, Saggy.

This is one of my favorite topics, even so, I confess, I didn't read your idiotic ramblings past the first few sentences, I'd be surprised if anyone did.

Here is the fact - there was, until 1992 or so, only one, 1, incontrovertible piece of evidence that the holohoax had actually taken place, and that was the chutes in the ceiling of the hoax Auschwitz gas chamber. In 1992 David Cole shot a video at camp which featured the museum director Frantisek Piper revealing that the chutes were constructed by the Soviets after the war's end. The single piece of physical evidence was revealed to be a fabrication.

 

[Saggy]

Screenshot attached. You're welcome.

If you've got em, post em. It's been, wisely, flushed down the memory hole at CODOH, with congratulations to the forum admin all around. LOL.

 

[Chaos]

This is one of my favorite topics, even so, I confess, I didn't read your idiotic ramblings past the first few sentences, I'd be surprised if anyone did.

So you´d be surprised if anyone read anything anyone with the slightest clue about this topic has to say?

I´m beginning to understand how you can be a Holocaust denier...