Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Clayton Moore]

.
Any of them come from real historians -- you know, the ones that research and write about actual historical events, having learned (by virtue of their training and experience) that not all stories are of equal historical value?

Plenty, as they were fabricated and nurtured by the hate cloud/smog built by the lies to support the SIX MILLION NUMBER.

 

[Saggy]

and Jan Sehn in 1946, about 50 years before Cole. Oh, wait, I seem to have mentioned this already in post #711 of this very thread....

It would have been of some little academic interest if the 'reconstruction' of the hoax gas chamber had been mentioned in 1946, probably before it occurred, so I followed NT's links, surprise, he was lying. I blame myself for wasting my time checking a NT reference.

 

[Clayton Moore]

.
Nor are there pictures of the actual so-called "bombing" of Dresden. No pictures of the bombs being loaded on the so-called "planes" or forensic evidence that any so-called "damage" was caused by these so=called "bombs". No autopsies of corpses showing the cause of death was these so-called "bombs" dropped by these so-called "planes".

Bottom line -- the so-called Dresden hoax is a degenerate lie: it was all a tragic baking accident.

The ball is in your court, ace.
.

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the German people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

 

[Nick Terry]

It would have been of some little academic interest if the 'reconstruction' of the hoax gas chamber had been mentioned in 1946, probably before it occurred, so I followed NT's links, surprise, he was lying. I blame myself for wasting my checking a NT reference.

Surprise, I was not lying. You, however, are.

The reference is this
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpol11.htm#wiping

p.91

As early as May, 1944, the old crematorium at Auschwitz was transformed into an air-raid shelter.

This is from the official Polish government report on Auschwitz, which quite clearly states that the old crematorium, i.e. Krema I, was rebuilt into an air raid shelter. In 1946.

 

[dafydd]

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the German people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

Caring people know that the Holocaust happened. Who is demanding ill of the German people,I have no idea what that means. My Dad's generation fought and died to rid the world of your hero Adolf. You are an insult to their memory.

 

[dafydd]

deleted

 

[Clayton Moore]

and Jan Sehn in 1946, about 50 years before Cole. Oh, wait, I seem to have mentioned this already in post #711 of this very thread....

He meant this thread.


Holocaust deniers, explain this.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6373994#post6373994

Likewise, you should read up on the history before making silly cliched denier pronouncements. The first Polish report on Auschwitz by Jan Sehn in 1946 explicitly mentioned that Krema I had been converted into an air raid shelter.

The above contained the link
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpol11.htm#wiping

At the end of August, 1944, the registration books in which the deaths of prisoners had been registered were destroyed, by special delegates from Berlin who took them all away, loaded them on two cars, and removed them from Auschwitz. The main book containing very many facts about the Sonderbehandlung (S. B.) was left to the camp authorities, but it was copied and the mark S.B. was replaced by another. Schumann’s X-ray apparatus was taken away in December, 1944. The

p.92

prisoner Slezak who worked it and had witnessed many experi ments done with it was sent to the concentration camp at Mauthausen, where he was executed.

First we're told to believe the "in the middle of the war" Germans brought Jewish families to "death camps" in Poland to perform "ritual murder" of millions by "gas chambers. Now we're told to believe delegates, likely 4 or more, drove about 400 miles from Berlin in 2 cars to Auschwitz while the Germans were losing the war. To destroy the books IN BERLIN?

Two cars? Why not a truck(s)?

Ritual book destruction?

This rivals the nonsense that doctors were required to climb the ladder and pour the Zyklon-B into the fabricated "gas chambers."

 

[Saggy]

Surprise, I was not lying. You, however, are.

The reference is this
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpol11.htm#wiping

p.91



This is from the official Polish government report on Auschwitz, which quite clearly states that the old crematorium, i.e. Krema I, was rebuilt into an air raid shelter. In 1946.

I read the link. The air raid shelter was not reconstructed, ace, the hoax gas chamber is what was 'reconstructed'.

The joy of being a Zionist, or a shabbos goy, is being able to lie, get called on it, and just repeat the lie with emphasis. LOL. Classic stuff.

 

[Nick Terry]

I read the link. The air raid shelter was not reconstructed, ace, the hoax gas chamber is what was 'reconstructed'.

Oh for God's sake.

Krema I, very clearly blueprinted as a crematorium in 1940-42, is also very clearly blueprinted as being converted into an air raid shelter in 1944, which fact is very clearly referred to in the official Polish report from 1946. Therefore, whatever is on display today is a reconstruction and not "the original building". This follows as a matter of simple logic.

Therefore also, David Cole's "gotcha" is completely meaningless because it is very clearly stated in 1946 that Krema I was not a crematorium at the end of the war, but an air raid shelter.

Now if you want to score a meaningless debating point, you can crow about how my post doesn't actually follow on from Kevin Silbstedt's literally, because I actually did not mean to imply that Sehn had claimed in 1946 that the gas chamber had been reconstructed. No, I simply wanted to reiterate the fact that it has been known very publicly since 1946 that the building was converted before the end of the war, therefore whatever is on display must, logically, be a postwar reconstruction.

What is nowhere stated, and nowhere apparent from any of the files, is your bullflop claim, repeated over and over and over again, that "the Soviets" reconstructed/hoaxed the gas chamber and crematorium. They were gone from the site in May 1945. Any reconstruction work was done by the Polish museum authorities.

Thus, any blether about doors being wrong and so forth is irrelevant. The building as it stands is two steps removed from how it was in 1942.

 

[Nick Terry]

I must confess that reading the latest pages of this thread is an almost surreal experience.

The reason being that I am currently working in an archive looking at the Soviet investigation of Auschwitz in the spring of 1945, the raw materials for the official communique published at the very end of the war on May 7, 1945. Thousands of pages of material, numerous site inspections, medical reports, engineering reports, original German documents and of course, masses of testimonies. The commission interviewed 207 witnesses officially, but the files contain probably another hundred statements from other witnesses who wrote in to give their accounts, or were interrogated elsewhere.

Now let's place ourselves in the shoes of potential investigators of Auschwitz as of January 27, 1945. You find a massive camp complex, which you already know from various sources was a hell-hole. You find about 7000 survivors in various sub-camps, and hundreds more survivors make their way to the area after escaping the forced evacuation marches. What do you do? Do you simply ignore what all these people might tell you? Or do you do what any sensible investigation would do and find out from them what had happened there?

And so you hear about the crematoria, and the gas chambers, from hundreds of witnesses, most "ordinary" inmates, but some people who had actually worked inside the crematoria. Then you find in the captured documents some pieces of paper which clearly pointed to the same space described as a gas chamber by the witnesses being called a 'Vergasungskeller'.

On what planet, under what rules of criminal investigation, would the witness statements and the document not correlate?

I'm sure Saggy, or one of the other deniers here, will now try to tell me that all the files I'm reading cannot be trusted because they are "Soviet", and they'll try to tell me this

1) without having read the files
2) without reading Russian
3) without having any demonstrable grasp of Soviet history
4) without even thinking to do the elementary comparison with US, British, French, Czech, Polish, Dutch, Austrian etc investigations of the selfsame Auschwitz camp at the same time, i.e. 1945

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

Oh for God's sake.

Krema I, very clearly blueprinted as a crematorium in 1940-42, is also very clearly blueprinted as being converted into an air raid shelter in 1944, which fact is very clearly referred to in the official Polish report from 1946. Therefore, whatever is on display today is a reconstruction and not "the original building". This follows as a matter of simple logic.

Therefore also, David Cole's "gotcha" is completely meaningless because it is very clearly stated in 1946 that Krema I was not a crematorium at the end of the war, but an air raid shelter.

To be fair, you expected from saggy, to make one simple logical step, which is way to much for our little Hitler hugger. Seems like the master race isn't that smart.

Nor are there pictures of the actual so-called "bombing" of Dresden. No pictures of the bombs being loaded on the so-called "planes" or forensic evidence that any so-called "damage" was caused by these so=called "bombs". No autopsies of corpses showing the cause of death was these so-called "bombs" dropped by these so-called "planes".

Bottom line -- the so-called Dresden hoax is a degenerate lie: it was all a tragic baking accident.

The ball is in your court, ace.

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the German people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

Yeah, how horrible of TSR to think, you could understand a simple analogy. What was he thinking?

But hey, at least now we know, that it's totally wrong to deny the death of thousands of Germans, but totally OK to deny the murdering of millions of jews, communists, gypsies and so on.

 

[Wroclaw]

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden.

You're funny, you know that?

 

[TSR]

Plenty, as they were fabricated and nurtured by the hate cloud/smog built by the lies to support the SIX MILLION NUMBER.

.
Of course, this will be like your smear of THHP, in which you claim lies you will never quite get around to actually documenting.

Speaking of lies -- where *is* that raw data from Krege?
.

 

[TSR]

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the German people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

.
All the non-simian and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of the Holocaust. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the Jewish people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

Oh, look! *There's* that Freudian slip you were looking for earlier. Unless you have any of that, you know, evidence thingy to support your oopsie that Germans from Dresden wre "hidden" or that most of the world fought and died to save the residents of that city...
.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Holocaust denial is really hard to understand. lots of people think its being denied completely when its just arguing about the severity of it

That's because it isn't denial. It happened and was a tragedy. People lost their homes and livelihoods and life possessions.

But there was no attempt at genocide. The ages of the survivors proves without a doubt that there was no final solution to exterminate the Jewish people of Europe. They were feared because of their links to Communism and because their only loyalty was to themselves.

 

[LemmyCaution]

deleted [topic already covered in later posts]

 

[Chaos]

All the German people and caring people here see this? This "person" makes a bottom line over the horror of Dresden. This is the kind of person who demands ill of the German people, the Catholic Church, the IRC, the Europe that hid them, and even the World that fought and died to save them.

No. He demonstrates that, by your own standards of evidence, if you had a shred of intellectual honesty left you would have to come to the conclusion that the bombing of Dresden never happened.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Who the hell photographs their crimes?

Well, some Germans did, as at Liepaja and elsewhere, and despite official prohibitions on their doing so, take photographs of the open air shootings in the East, but not, of course of the killing centers in the tightly controlled camps environment.

 

[Saggy]

I'm sure Saggy, or one of the other deniers here, will now try to tell me that all the files I'm reading cannot be trusted

Nope. I'll tell you that I regard your 'arguments' as cockamamie idiocy, as the 'discussion' about the hoax gas chamber amply demonstrates. So, I don't bother following your links unless I think there might be something interesting, and this post of yours didn't meet the test.

Here is the fact - the hoax gas chamber was presented to the public as a working gas chamber that was in its as found condition. This is verified by the quotes from van Pelt and the Cole video. And of course everyone knows this. Still, it doesn't surprise me that you argue against it, you have to, because it proves without doubt that the Auschwitz museum is run by degenerate liars the likes of which the world has never seen, and by implication this characterization applies to everyone selling this absurd hoax. Sorry.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

at Rodoh, where I post as KentFord9

Cool. I have read your posts. Well done.