Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[little grey rabbit]

(bl 364-5)

On the tenth day we were driven to the Lukyanovka ravine. We stood there - panic-stricken. From beneath the freshly strewn earth streamed rivers of blood, the blood of 56,000 murdered Jews. It cried out to us from beneath the earth. My hair turned gray that morning.
"Cover the accursed Jewish blood!" the officer ordered.
Several days later, they took us to the Golosayev woods. The woods were brightly lit up with huge bonfires. We saw sumptuously set tables. at the tables sat officers in parade uniforms. Near the bonfires were many small children trebling with fear. There were Ukrainian and Russian children among them. I heard one German officer explain to the soldiers how the game was to be played: From a distance of twelve meters, they were to toss the children in such a manner that their heads would strike the trunk of the tree. For every cracked skull they would receive a glass of schnapps.
This gruesome pastime lasted for several hours. The woods were filled with the cries of the children.
"Now there isn't a Jew left in all of Kiev!' the German officers yelled, as they tossed the children into the ditch. "We will do the same all over the world. We will annihilate all the Jews."



Golly, Jewish petanque....boules will never be the same again.

 

[Craig4]

The Holocaust that "killed millions of Jewish children, women, and men" never happened and was an after war fabrication. That Holocaust, your Holocaust, is hate for gain.

Why are you lying about this? You know it's not true.

 

[000063]

And over 50 B I L L I O N in reparations?

Why are you spelling it out, Clay? Is your dog listening to this thread?

 

[SpitfireIX]

I'm saying it's not obvious at all, and I offer as counterexamples all of the US states that have used the gas chamber as an execution method. Let's take a look at the two largest: California, which executed 196 condemned prisoners by lethal gas between 1938 and 1993, and North Carolina, which executed 193 between 1936 and 1998. Note that both states eventually replaced gas with lethal injection. How is it that these two states never adopted vacuum asphyxiation, if its advantages were so obvious in the 1940s? Were their legislators less concerned with the safety of the executioners than the Nazis were? Were they less concerned with saving money than the Nazis were?

CM, are you going to answer my question?

 

[Clayton Moore]

(bl 364-5)

On the tenth day we were driven to the Lukyanovka ravine. We stood there - panic-stricken. From beneath the freshly strewn earth streamed rivers of blood, the blood of 56,000 murdered Jews. It cried out to us from beneath the earth. My hair turned gray that morning.
"Cover the accursed Jewish blood!" the officer ordered.
Several days later, they took us to the Golosayev woods. The woods were brightly lit up with huge bonfires. We saw sumptuously set tables. at the tables sat officers in parade uniforms. Near the bonfires were many small children trebling with fear. There were Ukrainian and Russian children among them. I heard one German officer explain to the soldiers how the game was to be played: From a distance of twelve meters, they were to toss the children in such a manner that their heads would strike the trunk of the tree. For every cracked skull they would receive a glass of schnapps.
This gruesome pastime lasted for several hours. The woods were filled with the cries of the children.
"Now there isn't a Jew left in all of Kiev!' the German officers yelled, as they tossed the children into the ditch. "We will do the same all over the world. We will annihilate all the Jews."

Those are the kind of lies about the Germans that built the Holocaust myth. The lies are being discarded by the Holocaust mythologians but the hate remains and is reimprinted by Holocaust museums and Holocaust books about children raised by wolves and old Holocaust "death camp" survivors babbling lies to American children at paid speaking tours.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

.... and Holocaust books about children raised by wolves

You have somehow got Roman mythology confused with the Holocaust. Romulus and Remus were raised by wolves and founded Rome. Misha Defonseca fabricated a story about living with wolves. "The 71-year-old author, conceded that she was not even Jewish"

So she fabricated a story about the holocaust and is a liar. You fabricated a story that less than 500,000 people died in concentration camps and can't back it up. You are a liar as well.

Your point? That people lie? What makes you different to her?

 

[Clayton Moore]

CM, are you going to answer my question?

Lethal injection replaced gassing for humanitarian reasons.
Then you already knew that.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

You did know that there were Jewish doctors at most of the alleged "Death Camps?"

Yes, now what?

Anyone with a little more than superficial familiarity with the camp system, its operators' goals and ultimate achievements knows that some of the inmates had medical training, not just doctors. Some of those subject to persecution and deportation based on nazi racial decrees indeed practiced medicine inside the camps, under various conditions, while others were indeed gassed unceremoniously.

Dr. Elias Alex Cohen and Dr. Eduard de Wind were among the practisioners. They wrote several books in part informed by their experiences as inmate doctors -including but not limited to medical conditions in the camps. As Raul Hilberg noted on page 580 of The Destruction of the European Jews: "For an expert discussion of the medical aspects of nutrition in the camps, see Dr. Elie A. Cohen. (New York, 1953), pp. 55-58. The author is a survivor of Auschwitz."

Have you read E.A. Cohen's book, written in 1951, published in English in 1953, referenced by Hilberg in 1961? How do its contents help your case? How does its publication date fit your timeline? How could his post-war practice have improved your diagnosis?

In his book "Eindstation Auschwitz" (Terminal Auschwitz) written in Auschwitz in early 1945, published in The Netherlands in 1946, Dr. E. de Wind recalls a conversation which indicates that inmates like him were already aware there would be people like you. (page 158)

To this day Holocaust deniers scurry around proclaiming loudly to have the answer but their reply is nothing more than a loop of the same noisy silence.

Like your latest glib dodge:

Lethal injection replaced gassing for humanitarian reasons.
Then you already knew that.

Phenol injection? ... or was that a different time, a different place? Terminal Auschwitz. Before and after. Do try an honest answer next time he asks.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes, now what?

Anyone with a little more than superficial familiarity with the camp system, its operators' goals and ultimate achievements knows that some of the inmates had medical training, not just doctors. Some of those subject to persecution and deportation based on nazi racial decrees indeed practiced medicine inside the camps, under various conditions, while others were indeed gassed unceremoniously.

Dr. Elias Alex Cohen and Dr. Eduard de Wind were among the practisioners. They wrote several books in part informed by their experiences as inmate doctors -including but not limited to medical conditions in the camps. As Raul Hilberg noted on page 580 of The Destruction of the European Jews: "For an expert discussion of the medical aspects of nutrition in the camps, see Dr. Elie A. Cohen. (New York, 1953), pp. 55-58. The author is a survivor of Auschwitz."

Have you read E.A. Cohen's book, written in 1951, published in English in 1953, referenced by Hilberg in 1961? How do its contents help your case? How does its publication date fit your timeline? How could his post-war practice have improved your diagnosis?

In his book "Eindstation Auschwitz" (Terminal Auschwitz) written in Auschwitz in early 1945, published in The Netherlands in 1946, Dr. E. de Wind recalls a conversation which indicates that inmates like him were already aware there would be people like you. (page 158)

To this day Holocaust deniers scurry around proclaiming loudly to have the answer but their reply is nothing more than a loop of the same noisy silence.

Like your latest glib dodge:

Phenol injection? ... or was that a different time, a different place? Terminal Auschwitz. Before and after. Do try an honest answer next time he asks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol
Second World War

Injections of phenol have occasionally been used as a means of rapid execution. In particular, phenol was used as a means of execution by the Nazis during the Second World War. Originally used by the Nazis in 1939 as part of Action T4, phenol, inexpensive, easy to make and quickly lethal, became the injectable toxin of choice through the last days of the war. Although Zyklon-B pellets, invented by Gerhard Lenz, were used in the gas chambers to exterminate large groups of people, the Nazis learned that extermination of smaller groups was more economical via injection of each victim, one at a time, with phenol. Phenol injections were given to thousands of people in concentration camps, especially at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Approximately one gram is enough to cause death. Injections were administered by medical doctors, their assistants, or sometimes prisoner doctors; such injections were originally given intravenously, more commonly in the arm, but injection directly into the heart, so as to induce nearly instant death, was later adopted.[14] One of the best known inmates to be executed with a phenol injection in Auschwitz was St. Maximilian Kolbe, a Catholic priest who volunteered to undergo three weeks of starvation and dehydration in the place of another inmate.[14]

You can always tell a Holocaust LIE by the huge absurdity for effect. As if setting up an IVs to kill people wasn't absurd enough.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Lethal injection replaced gassing for humanitarian reasons.
Then you already knew that.

No. You claimed that vacuum asphyxiation is more efficient and safer than poison gas, and that this is so blatantly obvious that the Nazis would undoubtedly have quickly started using it instead of poison gas. I renew my question: if it's so blatantly obvious, then why didn't California and North Carolina, which started using gas as a method of execution in the 1930s, ever switch to vacuum asphyxiation?

 

[Clayton Moore]

No. You claimed that vacuum asphyxiation is more efficient and safer than poison gas, and that this is so blatantly obvious that the Nazis would undoubtedly have quickly started using it instead of poison gas. I renew my question: if it's so blatantly obvious, then why didn't California and North Carolina, which started using gas as a method of execution in the 1930s, ever switch to vacuum asphyxiation?

The executions were events. The state's objective was to kill the person not to "pull the plug" so to speak.

The mythical Nazi gassings were assembly line killings where speed, safety, and cost would be of concern.

 

[Wroclaw]

The mythical Nazi gassings were assembly line killings where speed, safety, and cost would be of concern.

Yes on speed and cost. A big no on safety. Perhaps you can explain why you think they would have been at all concerned with safety. What do you think the prisoner to SS ratio was at Auschwitz or Treblinka, and how close do you think the SS got to the actual gas chambers?

You should answer these questions so as not to appear intellectually feeble.

 

[Corsair 115]

What do you think the prisoner to SS ratio was at Auschwitz or Treblinka...

It would be interesting to see what differences, if any, existed between the prisoner-to-guard ratio in the concentration camps versus prisoner of war camps. Clayton seems all bothered by the logistics of the concentration camps, yet does not appear bothered by the logistics of the many POW camps holding Allied soldiers and airmen.

 

[twinstead]

You should answer these questions so as not to appear intellectually feeble.

Too late

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes on speed and cost. A big no on safety. Perhaps you can explain why you think they would have been at all concerned with safety. What do you think the prisoner to SS ratio was at Auschwitz or Treblinka, and how close do you think the SS got to the actual gas chambers?

You should answer these questions so as not to appear intellectually feeble.

So the unarmed camp's ran themselves 24/7 while the SS smoked their Cuban's.

 

[Wroclaw]

So the unarmed camp's ran themselves 24/7 while the SS smoked their Cuban's.

Thanks for not answering the question. I guess we can conclude what we can conclude, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Thanks for not answering the question. I guess we can conclude what we can conclude, n'est-ce pas?

So you have a death camp with inmates controlling thousands of victims daily. With or without guns?

 

[MG1962]

So you have a death camp with inmates controlling thousands of victims daily. With or without guns?

Would it matter. You couldn't tell the difference anyway

 

[Wroclaw]

So you have a death camp with inmates controlling thousands of victims daily. With or without guns?

Tell you what: I'm going to answer this one question, and then you're going to tell me what the guard to prisoner ratio was at Auschwitz, and then you're going to explain why safety would have been even a remote concern for the SS during gassing operations.

Yes, of course, the SS had guns. There was a war going on. Jesus H. Christ.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Tell you what: I'm going to answer this one question, and then you're going to tell me what the guard to prisoner ratio was at Auschwitz, and then you're going to explain why safety would have been even a remote concern for the SS during gassing operations.

Yes, of course, the SS had guns. There was a war going on. Jesus H. Christ.

You enjoy making religious slurs don't you?