Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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TSR said:
Are you serious questioning the lethality of HCN for mammals?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B
Use on humans
Use by Nazi Germany

Zyklon B was used by Nazi Germany to poison prisoners in the gas chambers of their network of extermination camps throughout Europe. Zyklon B was used at Auschwitz Birkenau, Majdanek and at Sachsenhausen. Most of the victims were Jews and the Zyklon B gas became a central symbol of the Holocaust. (Zyklon B was also briefly tried out at Bełżec, one of the Operation Reinhard camps, but soon dropped in favour of carbon monoxide from engine exhaust as the gassing agent of choice.)

Zyklon B was used in the concentration camps also for delousing to control typhus. The chemical used in the gas chambers was deliberately made without the warning odorant.[22] In quantitative terms, more than 95% of the Zyklon B delivered to Auschwitz was used for delousing and less than 5% in the gas chambers.[23]
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Which is darn close to admitting it wasn't used at all.

If you read the rest of the wiki article it says that the orderless B version was use in the US to disinfect freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants entering the US in 30s.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Which is darn close to admitting it wasn't used at all.
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No, it isn't. It is darn near like saying (1) Zyklon B was not the only lethal agent used in mass exterminations and (2) Zyklon B was used for killing people at Auschwitz in addition to its original and primary use there in delousing.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Which is darn close to admitting it wasn't used at all.
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from YOUR link:

In January or February 1940, 250 Gypsy children from Brno in the Buchenwald concentration camp were used as guinea pigs for testing the Zyklon B gas.[24] On September 3, 1941, around 600 Sovietprisoners of war and 250 sick Polish prisoners were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz. The experiments lasted more than 20 hours.

According to Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[25] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing the cyanide gas. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höss, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[26][27]


...thanks for that. and thanks for debunking your own silly claim:

Clayton Moore said:
There were no gas chambers.
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Clayton Moore said:
Which is darn close to admitting it wasn't used at all.

If you read the rest of the wiki article it says that the orderless B version was use in the US to disinfect freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants entering the US in 30s.
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Watch your quoting -- I did not include any link.

And no, it's not "darn close" when one considers the amount of HCN needed for fumigation vs. the lethal level for warm blooded animals. No one claims that HCN was not also used for the former. You *do* know what the relative figures are, right?

And no, the article does *not* say the 'orderless' <sic> version was ever used by the US, and in fact in the part you quoted apparently without having read it it says "The chemical used in the gas chambers was deliberately made without the warning odorant" and goes on to say "In early 1942, Zyklon B had emerged as the preferred extermination tool of the Nazi regime for both the Auschwitz-Birkenau and Majdanek extermination camps during the Holocaust. The chemical claimed the lives of roughly 1.2 million people in these camps".

None of which excuses your implication that HCN is not lethal to mammals in small quantities for short durations (as compared to fumigation).

And I note you skipped the rest of my post, so here it is for you to run from some more:




Of course, there *was* no such "6 million Holocaust" of WWI...


Meanwhile, why do you pretend that one man who was not even there's statements trump 69 men who were?


And what happened to Guta and Abus Strawczynski if Treblinka was just a transit camp?
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Quick topic injection: Can someone show any proof that the gas chambers were faked and that the j00000z faked every bit of their suffering to gain attention? I've heard about the Holocaust since middle school and 15 years later I have yet to see a compelling case of such fabrication.

The Holocaust was real, shame people have to try and rewrite history to claim it never happened.
 
Thunder said:
from YOUR link:

In January or February 1940, 250 Gypsy children from Brno in the Buchenwald concentration camp were used as guinea pigs for testing the Zyklon B gas.[24] On September 3, 1941, around 600 Sovietprisoners of war and 250 sick Polish prisoners were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz. The experiments lasted more than 20 hours.

According to Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[25] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing the cyanide gas. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höss, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[26][27]


...thanks for that. and thanks for debunking your own silly claim:
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Those inside died within 20 minutes
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And yet

(Zyklon B was also briefly tried out at Bełżec, one of the Operation Reinhard camps, but soon dropped in favour of carbon monoxide from engine exhaust as the gassing agent of choice.)
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I haven't even gotten to the idiocy of using carbon monoxide from engine exhaust as the gas of choice.

According to Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[25] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing the cyanide gas. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höss, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[26][27] Johann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: "Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives."[28] When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.[27]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Kremer

Dr Johann Paul Kremer (born 26 December 1883 in Stellberg; died 8 January 1965) served in the SS in the Auschwitz concentration camp as a physician during World War II, from 30 August 1942 to 18 November 1942.

A member of the NSDAP, he was involved in Nazi human experimentation on the prisoners of Auschwitz-Birkenau. He was sentenced to death in the Auschwitz Trial, but this sentence was later commuted to one of life imprisonment. He was released in 1958.
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http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/kremer.html

The above link makes little sense as he was out in 10 years. He was sentenced to death. His sentence was commuted. He was released after 10 years.

The only thing that could get him a green light, so to speak, is that testimony at his trial was determined false.
 
Clayton- please provide us with the evidence and the timeline of the Holocaust conspiracy plan, plot, etc etc. Who was involved. Who fixed the census data. Who fudged the records.
 
TSR said:
Of course, there *was* no such "6 million Holocaust" of WWI...
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After WWI there was attempt to convince the world that 6 million Jewish people were lost.

And that wasn't the first attempt to convince the world that 6 million Jewish people were lost.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Quick topic injection: Can someone show any proof that the gas chambers were faked and that the j00000z faked every bit of their suffering to gain attention? I've heard about the Holocaust since middle school and 15 years later I have yet to see a compelling case of such fabrication.

The Holocaust was real, shame people have to try and rewrite history to claim it never happened.
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Grizzly Bear and TSR. Did you know that neither Churchill, de Gaulle, or Eisenhower mentioned gas chambers in their writings after WWII.

Why do you think they would ignore such a huge part of the Holocaust?
 
Thunder said:
Clayton- please provide us with the evidence and the timeline of the Holocaust conspiracy plan, plot, etc etc. Who was involved. Who fixed the census data. Who fudged the records.
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Yes, it would be interesting to know who created all those fake German records, written in German. And where did those SS folks come from who admitted to participating in the Holocaust.

Then we can ask for evidence of what happened to the roughly five million non-Jews who were exterminated in the camps.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Yes, it would be interesting to know who created all those fake German records, written in German. And where did those SS folks come from who admitted to participating in the Holocaust.

Then we can ask for evidence of what happened to the roughly five million non-Jews who were exterminated in the camps.
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How many of you are there? Are any of you sensual women?
Let me speak with Thunder. Can you bring him back?


At least ask Thunder how Dr Johann Paul Kremer managed to only serve 10 years.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Grizzly Bear and TSR. Did you know that neither Churchill, de Gaulle, or Eisenhower mentioned gas chambers in their writings after WWII.

Why do you think they would ignore such a huge part of the Holocaust?
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Just curious. Show of hands on this.

- How many think that Clayton Moore has read, to take one example, Churchill's 6-volume history of WWII, the work "famously" cited by Faurisson?

- Second question: How many think Clayton Moore has even read this very thread, where the hoary gambit is "discussed" starting post #1071 where introduced by Clayton Moore himself before MG1962 and Wroclaw slapped him silly in reply and Clayton Moore abandoned the attempt?

FWIW the Churchill inanity is #81 on DBB.
 
Clayton Moore said:
After WWI there was attempt to convince the world that 6 million Jewish people were lost.
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No, there wasn't. There was a single op-ed piece, discussing the starvation which was rampant in Europe at the time, and the fact that close to 7 million Jews in Eastern Europe were at risk.


Either demonstrate that neither of these facts were correct, or try again.
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Clayton Moore said:
Grizzly Bear and TSR. Did you know that neither Churchill, de Gaulle, or Eisenhower mentioned gas chambers in their writings after WWII.
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None of the mentioned the Battle of the Bulge, either -- did that also not happen?

Clayton Moore said:
Why do you think they would ignore such a huge part of the Holocaust?
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Mostly because (here, I'll type it slow for you)

T h e y. w e r e. w r i t i n g. a b o u t. t h e i r. p e r s o n a l
e x p e r i e n c e s. d u r i n g. t h e. w a r ,. n o t. t h e
H o l o c a u s t ,. a n d. n o n e. o f. t h e m. c a m e. n e a r. a
c a m p. w h e r e. g a s. c h a m b e r s. w e r e. i n. u s e .

Now, when are you going to get around to addressing those 69 SS men?

And what happened to Guta and Abus Strawczynski if Treblinka was just a transit camp?
.
 
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TSR said:
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None of the mentioned the Battle of the Bulge, either -- did that also not happen?


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Mostly because (here, I'll type it slow for you)

T h e y. w e r e. w r i t i n g. a b o u t. t h e i r. p e r s o n a l
e x p e r i e n c e s. d u r i n g. t h e. w a r ,. n o t t h e
H o l o c a u s t ,. a n d. n o n e. o f. t h e m. c a m e. n e a r. a
c a m p. w h e r e. g a s. c h a m b e r s. w e r e. i n. u s e .

Now, when are you going to get around to addressing those 69 SS men?

And what happened to Guta and Abus Strawczynski if Treblinka was just a transit camp?
.
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I thought there was a gas chamber at Dachau?

Do you have a list of these 69 SS men and their statements?

TBH, if you consider that at least 6000 SS served at Auschwitz, it strikes me that 69 testimonies is not such a large number.
 
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