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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Nick Terry said:
after you've responded to the 1600 words I wrote above.
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What does the Peloponnesian War have to do with the Himmler order?

They won't allow specific topics here on the Holocaust anymore and we are both registered at CODOH. I loathe signing up anymore in general and your RODOH forum is just crap.

You didn't answer to my satisfication to that article so I like for you to try again keeping in mind that it might be posted on CODOH.
 
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kageki said:
What does the Peloponnesian War have to do with the Himmler order?
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You really didn't understand the analogy, did you?

Wow.

I mean — wow.

They won't allow specific topics here on the Holocaust anymore and we are both registered at CODOH. I loathe signing up anymore in general and your RODOH forum is just crap.
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Personally, I see no reason why Nick should bother debating in a forum in which the "moderation" is so clearly on the side of obscuring free discussion.

You didn't answer to my satisfication to that article so I like for you to try again keeping in mind that it might be posted on CODOH.
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Allow me to predict what will happen if/when you do that:

Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis will "refute" it, claim a victory, erase the posts of anyone else who agrees with Nick, then eventually lock the thread.

I've got $100 to ride on that outcome. Any takers?
 
kageki said:
What does the Peloponnesian War have to do with the Himmler order?
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Both are events in the past about which we have less than perfect information. Really, if you don't get this, then you are unfit to be discussing anything past yesterday lunchtime.

They won't allow specific topics here on the Holocaust anymore
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Well you did bump a long dead thread, and there is clearly a disinclination to allow dozens of Holocaust threads to proliferate when they will all end up in the same slanging match. If there was some effort on your side to discuss things sincerely then I'm sure we could get this changed. But it'd have to be on medium-sized topics rather than micro-issues. The threads that have been merged into this one have all been trivia, news stories or obvious trolling exercises.

and we are both registered at CODOH. I loathe signing up anymore in general and your RODOH forum is just crap.
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It's not 'my' RODOH forum, and yes it is crap, because the deniers registered there are all trolls, none of whom are interested in discussing the subject properly. That's why they attracted so many insults until it became supremely boring and tedious. I haven't posted there much recently, and not at all in the main discussion forum since the start of this month, i.e. three weeks ago.

You didn't answer to my satisfication to that article so I like for you to try again keeping in mind that it might be posted on CODOH.
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I don't care whether I answered to your satisfaction. I wrote 1,600 words and so far you're not bothering to respond to what I said. It doesn't seem like you have even understood the points made, judging by your comment about the Peloponnesian war.

I am not interested in joining you at CODOH to discuss a micro-issue isolated from its context, and have already said you don't have my permission to repost materials from here. I cannot stop you, but if you do repost things then I'm certainly not going to follow you over and join you there. And your reputation over here will suffer further, because you'll have exposed yourself as a sleazebag incapable of mastering the basic niceties and politenesses of genuine debate.

By all means, go to CODOH and start a thread asking about the Himmler stop order. Watch as most of the forum denizens fail to get beyond the level of searching for the article/link you posted, fail to demonstrate any knowledge of the sources, and fail to comprehend either the context or basic logic, all the while engaging in hilariously comic back-slapping and doing victory dances, oblivious to the fact that nobody gives a flying monkey's what a handful of loons might believe on a sparsely populated internet forum.

Or you can debate here, in this thread. Whining about process and venue just makes you look like a dork, so stfu already and get on with it.
 
kageki said:
They've talked about the Krege report so I don't understand your point. My understanding is that it has not been officially published so I find it to be a fair criticism.
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It hasn't been published because it doesn't exist. There is no data to publish. How do you think Krege inspected 7.5 metre deep mass graves when he appears in his video with a 1.5 metre auger. (for sampling soil) which he doesn't even use. Even more ridiculous is Krege can't state what university tested his soil samples ( because he never took any). What about his GPR raw data? Krege can't remember which university processed his raw date ( none did because no raw data exists). Where is Krege's test pit and GPR "grid" ...oh, that's right he can't remember.

Krege made a hoax video filming himself at Treblinka in 1999. He stated that there were no executions at Treblinka and had his fingers crossed that Graf & Mottongo's Treblinka: Extermination or Transit camp was accurate. In 2001 the Hofle Telegram was decoded and it was confirmed that 713,555 people were sent to Treblinka. Graf & Mottogo's paper was exposed as rubbish and Krege was left looking like an idiot who fabricated a story to promote holocaust denial.

Why don't you contact Krege, CODOH, Bradley Smith and ask them where the raw data is? That can't be too hard for you to do is it? Checking your own holocaust denial sources on CODOH?
 
Nick Terry said:
......... Really, if you don't get this, then you are unfit to be discussing anything past yesterday lunchtime.

............... because the deniers registered there are all trolls, none of whom are interested in discussing the subject properly

...............because you'll have exposed yourself as a sleazebag incapable of mastering the basic niceties and politenesses of genuine debate.

................., all the while engaging in hilariously comic back-slapping and doing victory dances, oblivious to the fact that nobody gives a flying monkey's what a handful of loons might believe on a sparsely populated internet forum.

.......Whining about process and venue just makes you look like a dork, so stfu already and get on with it.
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Examples of the fine debating style of holohoax scholar Nick Terry.

Of course he doesn't want to 'debate' on CODOH, his style, demonstrated above, would have him bounced in a minute.
 
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Oh dear, did Nick Terry make even Saggy look stupid? Not too difficult to achieve.
 
Saggy said:
Examples of the fine debating style of holohoax scholar Nick Terry.
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Nice try at playing the Den Mother, Saggy, but unless you report those comments and a moderator thinks they're out of line, deal with it.

In true crank fashion, you snipped those remarks out of context while ignoring everything else posted in the last page or so. It's such an age-old tactic someone defined the routine 15 years ago


5. Sticks and Stones -- If you're being wiped out with evidence and reasoning you cannot refute, you can always take refuge in complaining about the language being used by your adversaries. For example, if they say, "I've already explained that it takes less gas to kill people than lice, and therefore there are fewer cyanide residues remaining on the gas chamber walls than on the delousing chamber walls, you moron," you can respond by complaining about their use of the word "moron." You can actually evade quite a bit of serious discussion by spending a lot of time condescendingly lecturing the newsgroup about their use of trashy language. But this approach doesn't work very well in building credibility. You may view yourself as an arbiter of social discourse but you'll actually come off like a den-mother scurrying around excoriating the little Cub Scouts to behave themselves.
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Naturally, Saggy has nothing to say about Thucydides vs the Himmler order and is frightened of discussing basic principles since that would spoil his fun ignoring them.

Of course he doesn't want to 'debate' on CODOH, his style, demonstrated above, would have him bounced in a minute.
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That's making the assumption that I am somehow incapable of changing my style depending on the venue. While it might be true for you, it's not true for me.

I should note that there are plenty of examples of CODOH forumites resorting to gutter insults towards non-revisionists, so please try to be less hypocritical if you want to play the den mother card.
 
Nick Terry said:
.......
That's making the assumption that I am somehow incapable of changing my style depending on the venue. While it might be true for you, it's not true for me.
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Your style of 'debate' displayed on this forum is unbelievable, disgraceful, for anyone claiming to be a scholar or even a reasonable person. Your endless insults are appropriate only for Zionists and juveniles. It is unthinkable for a true academic. Name one real academic who resorts to your sort of gutter language and idiotic name calling in any forum, anywhere. Perhaps some of the readers of this forum are not academics, or students, they could easily get the mistaken idea that university professors are no more mannered and professional than barroom drunks from reading your posts. You are an embarrassment to higher education in Britain, is it? And all in the service of the Zionists. Show some respect for yourself, if not the rest of us !
 
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Let's look at the order Nick:

http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcstopgas.html
Between the middle of September and October 1944 I caused the Reichsf�hrer SS Himmler to issue the following order, which I received in two originals, one each for SS Generals Kaltenbrunner and Pohl, and a carbon copy for myself: �Effective immediately I forbid any liquidation of Jews and order that, on the contrary, hospital care should be given to weak and sick persons. I hold you (and here Kaltenbrunner and Pohl were meant) personally responsible even if this order should not be strictly adhered to by lower echelons.� I personally took Pohl's copy to him at his office in Berlin and left the copy for Kaltenbrunner at his office in Berlin.�[2]

IMT Document PS-3762; IMT Volume XXXII, p. 68. [The original German text reads: Etwa zwischen Mitte September und Mitte Oktober 1944 erwirkte ich beim Reichsminister SS Himmler folgenden Befehl, den ich in zwei Originalen, je eins f�r die SS-Obergruppenf�hrer Kaltenbrunner und Pohl und einer Copie f�r mich erhielt: �Ich verbiete mit sofortiger Wirkung jegliche Vernichtung von Juden und befehle im Gegenteil die Pflege von schwachen und kranken Personen. Ich halte Sie (damit waren Kaltenbrunner und Pohl gemeint) pers�nlich daf�r verantwortlich, auch wenn dieser Befehl von untergeordneten Dienststellen nicht strikt befolgt wird!� Ich �berbrachte Pohl das f�r ihn bestimmte Exemplar pers�nlich in Berlin in seiner Dienststelle und gab das Exemplar f�r Kaltenbrunner in seinem Sekretariat in Berlin ab. Note of the translator.]
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Can you tell me how you get gassing from this?
 
Saggy said:
Examples of the fine debating style of holohoax scholar Nick Terry.
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Ironic that this line exemplifies your own "fine debating style". Nick Terry's post was entirely correct. It's quite telling that you found it necessary to simply snip out everything that he said in order to "refute" it.

Saggy said:
Of course he doesn't want to 'debate' on CODOH, his style, demonstrated above, would have him bounced in a minute.
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What "style"? You mean posting facts? Oh, yeah. That would get him banned pretty quickly at CODOH.

See, Saggy, the members here aren't idiots, and we aren't incapable of, you know, actually going to CODOH and seeing what things are like for ourselves. I, for one, have done so several times, and I'm pretty sure that many other members have also browsed the forums there a couple times, if not participated themselves. CODOH wants anything but "open discussion of the Holocaust". Any posts contradicting you and your friends are swiftly deleted.

The description of a "circle-jerk" is quite accurate.

Saggy said:
Your style of 'debate' displayed on this forum is unbelievable, disgraceful, for anyone claiming to be a scholar or even a reasonable person. Your endless insults are appropriate only for Zionists and juveniles. It is unthinkable for a true academic. Name one real academic who resorts to your sort of gutter language and idiotic name calling in any forum, anywhere.
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IRONY
 
kageki said:
Can you tell me how you get gassing from this?
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From actually reading the entire document.

I personally took Pohl's copy to him at his office in Berlin and left the copy for Kaltenbrunner at his office in Berlin.

In my opinion Kaltenbrunner and Pohl bear the full responsibility after this date for any further killings of Jewish prisoners. When visiting the Concentration Camp Mauthausen on 27 April 1945 at 9:00 a.m. I was told under the seal of strictest secrecy by the Commandant in the Camp, SS Colonel Ziereis, that "Kaltenbrunner gave me the order that at least a thousand persons have still to die at Mauthausen each day."
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Saggy said:
Your style of 'debate' displayed on this forum is unbelievable, disgraceful, for anyone claiming to be a scholar or even a reasonable person. Your endless insults are appropriate only for Zionists and juveniles. It is unthinkable for a true academic. Name one real academic who resorts to your sort of gutter language and idiotic name calling in any forum, anywhere. Perhaps some of the readers of this forum are not academics, or students, they could easily get the mistaken idea that university professors are no more mannered and professional than barroom drunks from reading your posts. You are an embarrassment to higher education in Britain, is it?
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Holocaust deniers are "reasonable people," hmmm?

I don't think they are.
 
Pure Argent said:
From actually reading the entire document.
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There is no mention of gassings.

http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcstopgas.html

What then is the truth about the gassing of European Jews, and what do you know about it? After all you spent much time together with the best informed and leading Hungarian Jews.�

To this, Becher replied:

I heard about these things for the first time when I was brought to Nuremberg as a prisoner. What the truth really is, I don't know, but the allegations are in any case enormously exaggerated, as we all know.
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This Himmler order was given to Becher and here says he didn't even know about gassings until the trial. So how can the order be considered to stop gassings?
 
kageki said:
There is no mention of gassings.



This Himmler order was given to Becher and here says he didn't even know about gassings until the trial. So how can the order be considered to stop gassings?
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Becher, you should know, was a notorious, self serving hustler sent to
Hungary to extort from Jewish holdings. Becher, personally took over
the ownership of one of Hungary's largest Jewish holdings -The Weiss
Steel Works - so his veracity is not to be naively taken for granted.

Nonetheless, he testified for the prosecution against Eichmann (refusing
to go to Israel for obvious reasons) but giving a statement that included
the following answer to the question of when he learned that Jews were being
exterminated

" Jewish sources, particularly Dr. Kasztner, first hinted, and from the end of August 1944, I think, told me that of the Jews deported from Hungary only some were being used for labour, while the others were annihilated. At that, as far as I remember, I turned to Eichmann, too, and he insisted that these were lies. All the Jews, he said, were being used for labour. It was only when I read the content of the order which I managed to get Himmler to issue in the autumn of 1944 - today I am not entirely sure whether it was October or November - "With immediate effect, I prohibit any annihilation of Jews, and on the contrary, I order that weak and sick persons be looked after" - that I received for the first time confirmation from the German side that Dr. Kasztner's information was correct."

So Becher testified that Himmler's order corroborated his "Jewish sources"
that knew about the exterminations. While the word "gassings" does not appear
in this statement, you should be able to add two plus two to understand that your
revisionist comrades have been running a scam.

Note that Becher tries to take credit for Himmler's order - a consumate
con man who died free, old and filthy rich.
 
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