Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Revdude]

evidence?

hmm....looks like your blaming the German Jews for how they were treated by the Nazis.

you know, its funny how you claim that Hitler refused "Jewish money", while others claim Hitler was funded by Jewish bankers.

I've read about Hitler being funded by Jewish bankers too..
I've not really researched.

Maybe this is where it came from.

I don't know if you are familiar with a book entitled "The Red Symphony".
http://www.savethemales.ca/000275.html

The Red Symphony is a transcript of a 1938 Stalinist police (NKVD) interrogation of a founder of the Communist International, Christian G. Rakovsky, who was facing execution for plotting to overthrow Stalin.

It claims that the Rothschild-Illuminati planned to use Communism to establish a world dictatorship of the super rich.

Now as for Hitler...Rakowsky claims that Jewish financiers backed the Nazis although Hitler was not aware of this.

"The ambassador *Warburg presented himself under a false name and Hitler did not even guess his race... he also lied regarding whose representative he was... Our aim was to provoke a war and Hitler was war...[the Nazis] received...millions of dollars sent to it from Wall Street, and millions of Marks from German financiers through Schacht; [providing] the upkeep of the S.A and the S.S. and also the financing of the elections..."

Unfortunately for the bankers, Hitler also proved intractable. He started to print his own money

* The Warburg mentioned here is Felix Warburg, then Ambassador to France.
Felix Warburg was a partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Co.. He is known as a leading advocate of a Federal Reserve System for the United States. He married Frieda Schiff, daughter of Jacob H. Schiff

So maybe it was both way's. Hitler refused their money, yet it was given without his knowledge. If this interrogation is true, then it would seem that the goal was to empower the Nazi's to go to war with the Soviets.

A little more research shows that this gets dirtier by the minute.

Kuhn. Loeb, and Co. is the NY banking firm that gave Trotsky thousands of dollars in gold to fund the Bolshevik Revolution
Felix is the brother of Paul Warburg, co-founder of US Federal Reserve.
Brother Max Warburg was President of M.M.Warburg & CO in Hamburg, which was the holding company for the funds transferred in during the Ha'avara Transfer program.

 

[Revdude]

That isn´t what he said at all, and you know it.

He said a government cannot ignore the laws within their own country.

And I said, a government can do what they wish to the laws in their own country.
Look what is going on in the US right now!

They are trying to legalize the illegal immigrants.

 

[Thunder]

Kuhn. Loeb, and Co. is the NY banking firm that gave Trotsky thousands of dollars in gold to fund the Bolshevik Revolution
Felix is the brother of Paul Warburg, co-founder of US Federal Reserve.
Brother Max Warburg was President of M.M.Warburg & CO in Hamburg, which was the holding company for the funds transferred in during the Ha'avara Transfer program.

and therefore, 300,000 German Jews and another 5 million European Jews had to be exterminated?

wow.

 

[twinstead]

never mind

 

[Wroclaw]

Just as much as the Japanese-Americans. It was a war

You're off-topic.

The issue under debate is what the Jews in Europe had done wrong to be put into the KZ system.

It had been suggested that they were there for some reason other than being Jewish.

What was done to Japanese-Americans is wholly irrelevant to the answer to why Jews were in camps in Europe.

 

[Wroclaw]

Kuhn. Loeb, and Co. is the NY banking firm that gave Trotsky thousands of dollars in gold to fund the Bolshevik Revolution

False.

Kuhn Loeb gave money to the Kerensky gov't. They withdrew their funding in November 1917, when the Bolsheviks seized power. They did this because they did not support communism.

Repeating a lie won't make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

The main funder of the Bolsheviks was the Imperial German government.

 

[truethat]

You're off-topic.

The issue under debate is what the Jews in Europe had done wrong to be put into the KZ system.

It had been suggested that they were there for some reason other than being Jewish.

What was done to Japanese-Americans is wholly irrelevant to the answer to why Jews were in camps in Europe.

I would disagree with this. I find it very useful as a compare and contrast. Even if the motivations of the Americans were the same as the Germans, the result was NOT the same at all.

 

[Wroclaw]

I would disagree with this. I find it very useful as a compare and contrast. Even if the motivations of the Americans were the same as the Germans, the result was NOT the same at all.

It's still off-topic. Here's why.

IDIOT DENIER: Hey, the Nazis had, like, real good reasons for putting the jews [sic] into camps.

ME: You can't justify Jews being sent to the KZ system for any other reason except their being Jewish.

ID: Um, er, ah . . . the Japanese were in camps too!​

See?

 

[Thunder]

great, now this is just an "evil Juden" thread.

 

[Wroclaw]

great, now this is just an "evil Juden" thread.

When was it not?

 

[truethat]

It's still off-topic. Here's why.

IDIOT DENIER: Hey, the Nazis had, like, real good reasons for putting the jews [sic] into camps.

ME: You can't justify Jews being sent to the KZ system for any other reason except their being Jewish.

ID: Um, er, ah . . . the Japanese were in camps too!​

See?

The whole premise of deniers is that this situation is the same thing that has happened around the world in all sorts of wars.

By examining the way it is different from the other incidents like this, we can show the reality.

I am not interested necessarily in "convincing a denier" since it usually is the case that the denier is also anti-Semitic. However I can guarantee you that other people who would never participate in this discussion are reading this thread.

By presenting the evidence in a factual way rather than a "outraged anger" sort of way, we do more to actually educate people reading the thread.

Making a comparison and examining the difference is very important.

Also if you call someone an Idiot, then you have lost the debate. And wandered outside the MA, no matter how justified you may thing you are.

 

[Revdude]

False.

Kuhn Loeb gave money to the Kerensky gov't. They withdrew their funding in November 1917, when the Bolsheviks seized power. They did this because they did not support communism.

Repeating a lie won't make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

The main funder of the Bolsheviks was the Imperial German government.

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=FinalWarn07-3

Leon Trotsky Returns from New York

Leon Trotsky (whose real name was Lev Davidovich Bronstein, 1879-1940, the son of wealthy Jewish parents), was exiled from Russia because of his part in the aborted revolution in 1905 and was a reporter for Novy Mir, a communist paper in New York, from 1916-17. He had an expensive apartment and traveled around town in a chauffeur-driven limousine. He sometimes stayed at the Krupp mansion, and had been seen going in and out of Schiff's New York mansion.

Leon Trotsky was given $20 million in Jacob Schiff gold to help finance the revolution, which was deposited in a Warburg bank, then transferred to the Nya Banken (Nye Bank) in Stockholm, Sweden. According to the Knickerbocker Column in the New York Journal American on February 3, 1949:

Very interesting article on this topic.
http://www.wildboar.net/multilingua...s/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

Take note that the same names pop up over and over when speaking of International Finance and War.

 

[truethat]

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=FinalWarn07-3


Very interesting article on this topic.
http://www.wildboar.net/multilingua...s/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

Take note that the same names pop up over and over when speaking of International Finance and War.

What does any of this have to do with rounding up poor Jewish peasants?

Take the situation in Iraq. The US government has trampled across the people in their efforts to take out Saddam Hussein. The goal is to take out the powerful elite.

It would be a waste of money to round up poor Iraqis and put them in camps because they are also seen as a threat for sympathizing with Saddam Hussein.

How do the actions of the powerful elite, translate to justification of stripping a regular citizen of their basic human rights?

 

[Tolls]

They were sent there because for the most part, no other countries wanted them.

it's no secret the Nazi's wanted to be rid of the Jews, especially after the declaration of economic boycott in March of 1933.

One of the main problems with the Agreement was the fact that before the Jews were allowed to emigrate, they had to show financial independence because Germany was in no financial position to provide resources for them.

Now, you don't think those two things might be ever so slightly related?

The Nazi government declares a boycott of Jewish businesses, which extends to sacking senior Jews from all walks of life. Then later allows the Jews to leave, but only if they have the cash. The cash they are now short of because they've essentially been dispossessed.

 

[Wroclaw]

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=FinalWarn07-3

I suggest you read this:

http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.wallstreetbolshevik.app2.htm

Anthony Sutton, by the way, was a conservative British historian associated with the right-wing Hoover Institute in California. Who was David Rivera? Was he even a historian?

Very interesting article on this topic.
http://www.wildboar.net/multilingua...s/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

Take note that the same names pop up over and over when speaking of International Finance and War.

There's a reason for that...

By the way, Trotsky wasn't exiled to the U.S.; he came here after escaping from Tsarist custody. He had been exiled to Siberia and had gotten loose on the way.

Also, he'd only been in New York for a few months before he left. And when he lived in New York, he lived in a tenement in the Bronx.

This is entirely lies.

 

[Chaos]

And I said, a government can do what they wish to the laws in their own country.

The US example is completely irrelevant.

A government CANNOT retroactively make legal acts illegal.

 

[Wroclaw]

The whole premise of deniers is that this situation is the same thing that has happened around the world in all sorts of wars.

By examining the way it is different from the other incidents like this, we can show the reality.

I agree.

I am not interested necessarily in "convincing a denier" since it usually is the case that the denier is also anti-Semitic. However I can guarantee you that other people who would never participate in this discussion are reading this thread.

I agree.

By presenting the evidence in a factual way rather than a "outraged anger" sort of way, we do more to actually educate people reading the thread.

Making a comparison and examining the difference is very important.

Yeah, it's still off-topic. All the manage to do is evade answering the question. Responding to their evasions merely encourages them.

Also if you call someone an Idiot, then you have lost the debate.

Untrue. Engaging in ad hominem is not equivalent to losing the debate any more than not answering the question or changing the subject.

And wandered outside the MA, no matter how justified you may thing you are.

I don't care.

 

[Wroclaw]

The US example is completely irrelevant.

A government CANNOT retroactively make legal acts illegal.

That's not technically true.

The Supreme Court of the United States rules in 1972 that capital punishment was unconstitutional and, thus, illegal.

Everybody serving a death sentence at that time had their sentence commuted. Including, e.g., Charles Manson.

So a legal act (execution) was made illegal.

And the government can (and has and continues to) make formerly illegal acts legal.

Works both ways.

 

[Revdude]

I suggest you read this:

http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.wallstreetbolshevik.app2.htm

Anthony Sutton, by the way, was a conservative British historian associated with the right-wing Hoover Institute in California. Who was David Rivera? Was he even a historian?



There's a reason for that...

By the way, Trotsky wasn't exiled to the U.S.; he came here after escaping from Tsarist custody. He had been exiled to Siberia and had gotten loose on the way.

Also, he'd only been in New York for a few months before he left. And when he lived in New York, he lived in a tenement in the Bronx.

This is entirely lies.

Your article seems to infer that some believe that the Russian Revolution was a Jewish led war. I don't know one way or the other. What I am talking about is International Finance.
Kuhn, Loeb, and Schiff were the American arm of the Rothschild Banking Family, just as the Warburgs were the German. It was Jacob Schiff that gave Trotsky the money.
Maybe the order came from elsewhere, but he went through Schiff.

Russia seems to have been targeted for some reason. During the 1905 Japan/Russia war, the Rothschilds heavily financed Japan.

When Trotsky set sail for Europe, with the money, he was detained as the ship passed Newfoundland. Allegedly, a personal note from Woodrow Wilson, effected his release.

Perhaps his tenement lifestyle was a cover.

 

[dafydd]

Not the whole human race...

To Germany.

What were Anne Frank's crimes?