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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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I defy you to define what makes a neoconservative different from other kinds of conservatives.

If you can't do it, by the way, it proves something about you...
 
Wroclaw said:
I defy you to define what makes a neoconservative different from other kinds of conservatives.

If you can't do it, by the way, it proves something about you...
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They were formerly far left commie types who saw communism was dead in the West. So much of their bent, such as democracy building, is not unlike the spreading of communism in Europe.

And, politicians say they are conservatives. Nobody runs as a neoconservative yet they control many American policies via neoconservative lobbies and think tanks.
 
I note you were unable to answer the question correctly. Thus demonstrating my point.

Thanks for playing.
 
MG1962 said:
Sorry I am simply not buying. It is a quarterly, and the particular issue was published in the winter of 2001
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Look I can understand why you don't trust Rabbit. Neither do I. However there does seem to be a Vad Vashem Studies v. 21 dated 1991. The text he found only gives snippet view so a huge amount of context is missing. The text says:

At that time, i.e., in late May early June 1942, the clandestine press published reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp. The first reference to the killing center there is to be found in a text by Gutkowski entitled "The Scroll of Agony and Destruction", which probably constitutes the draft of an Oneg...
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That is the complete snippet.

I fail to see how this helps Rabbit very much in anything. In so far as construction of the death camp was started in early 1942 after orders in late autumn 1941 to start Operation Reinhard. The first operating extermination center was at Belzec.

I note that Rabbit seems to be utterly uninterested in the context of the above comment.

The following is the url for Yad Vashem Journal

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/studies/home_studies.html Issue 35 was for 2007.
 
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LOL. That was a massive edit Pacal.

From there is nothing on snippet view and that volume is dated 2001 to what you have now. You are making Wroclaw and Lemmycaution cringe.

Fortunately I have linked to the entire pdf on the page prior, so you can read the entire article and see my quote from it is entirely accurate.
 
Wroclaw said:
Your inability to understand logistics is not equivalent to your being correct.
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Please explain the "gas chamber" tasks and the total labor involved and the "gas van" tasks and the total labor involved.
Number of laborers and their general status at the camps or other location. Guard, doctor, prisoner, Sonderkommando, etc.
 
Saggy said:
I clicked on your link just to see how things were going over at Skeptics.com and I see David is still giving you one very extended spanking after another. Great stuff ! Thanks.
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Is that where "David" the holocaust denier "revisionist" demands that I pay him $10,000 to provide evidence Treblinka was a transit camp or he wont provide any evidence at all?

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15233
 
Pacal said:
Look I can understand why you don't trust Rabbit. Neither do I. However there does seem to be a Vad Vashem Studies v. 21 dated 1991. The text he found only gives snippet view so a huge amount of context is missing. The text says:
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Sorry I care little for Rabbit's thoughts or claims. I do however have the same thing he claims. Mine is 20 pages printed in the Winter of 2001 by the Vad Vashem Institute The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' remembrance authority

Editor in Chief Iris Rosenberg

ISSN 0793-7199
 
MG1962 said:
Sorry I care little for Rabbit's thoughts or claims. I do however have the same thing he claims. Mine is 20 pages printed in the Winter of 2001 by the Vad Vashem Institute The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' remembrance authority

Editor in Chief Iris Rosenberg

ISSN 0793-7199
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Sorry dude, I never claimed to have the Yad Vashem Jerusalem Quarterly Magazine
http://www1.yadvashem.org/2B48CB88-...v/en/pressroom/magazine/pdf/yv_magazine21.pdf

I was always absolutely specificthat I was talking about Yad Vashem Studies - I even linked to it on google books and then provided a PDF of the article in question.

Hell you can even google "Yad Vashem Studies"
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&q=%22Yad+Vashem+Studies%22&fp=ec0cf3f59fa5bd86

And look what you find.....
Edited by Tricky: 
Edited for civility.
 
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MG1962 said:
Sorry I care little for Rabbit's thoughts or claims. I do however have the same thing he claims. Mine is 20 pages printed in the Winter of 2001 by the Vad Vashem Institute The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' remembrance authority

Editor in Chief Iris Rosenberg

ISSN 0793-7199
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Look I do not wish to fight with you over this but I checked the google link the Rabbit provided and it is to a Vad Vashem journal v. 21 published in 1991 that was more than 200+ pages. So Rabbit is not making it up. However he seems to have not read the actual journal but only a snippet which I'm pretty sure he is distorting. And what I quoted is not one of Rabbit's claims but the actual snippet at Google books.

I went to the Vad Vashem web site to check their publications. It appears that v. 21 of Vad Vashem Studies is not available for sale but among the issues available I found the following.

Yad Vashem Studies

Volume XXIV
Edited by Aharon Weiss

(1994), ISSN: 0084-3296, Cat. No. 135
390 pp., hard cover, 14X22 cm.
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From http://secure.yadvashem.org/store/product.asp?productid=214

Listen I can't stand the Rabbit I have him on ignore, He is in my opinion a troll, but he seems to be referring to this publication and I have little doubt seriously distorting it, given that he doesn't seem to have read much more than a google snippet.

I guess were just talking two different publications here.
 
Pacal said:
Look I do not wish to fight with you over this but I checked the google link the Rabbit provided and it is to a Vad Vashem journal v. 21 published in 1991 that was more than 200+ pages. So Rabbit is not making it up. However he seems to have not read the actual journal but only a snippet which I'm pretty sure he is distorting. And what I quoted is not one of Rabbit's claims but the actual snippet at Google books.

I went to the Vad Vashem web site to check their publications. It appears that v. 21 of Vad Vashem Studies is not available for sale but among the issues available I found the following.



From http://secure.yadvashem.org/store/product.asp?productid=214

Listen I can't stand the Rabbit I have him on ignore, He is in my opinion a troll, but he seems to be referring to this publication and I have little doubt seriously distorting it, given that he doesn't seem to have read much more than a google snippet.

I guess were just talking two different publications here.
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Trouble is old chum, I also gave a PDF of the entire article for anyone interested

see my post 1947

http://www.lekket.com/data/articles/001-021-006_000.pdf
Article:
Sakowska, Ruta, "Two Forms of Resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto; Two Functions of the
Ringelblum Archives"
Published in:
Yad Vashem Studies 21 (1991) 189-219

I mean what more do I have to do? Take screenshots of it?

As for distorting it, it was in context of if a reference to press conference given by the Government in Exile on July 9 1942 referring to gassing deaths in Treblinka was a forgery or not.

I was just demonstrating it is unlikely to be a forgery because we have even earlier references to a "Treblinka B" - as such the only forgery must be the letter of Irmfred Eberl on 7 July 1942.

That was the point of the discussion before MG1962 went into a tail spin about pseudonyms and 20 pages articles and an inability to read google books.
 
Wroclaw said:
Criminal? Only in some places and in those places you really have to be doing something else besides just disagreeing (though I do think the laws are wrong).

Racist? No, not racist. But anti-Semitic for sure.
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The United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race.
 
Way to quote out of context:

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.
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Wroclaw said:
Way to quote out of context:
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The scary aspect of this thread is that it's okay to call down the German people and much of Europe, the Catholic Church, and the US as complicit to an alleged genocide but it's a criminal offense and/or racist to disagree.
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Criminal? Only in some places and in those places you really have to be doing something else besides just disagreeing (though I do think the laws are wrong).

Racist? No, not racist. But anti-Semitic for sure.
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LINK?
Wroclaw
In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.
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Bottom line, the government says racist.


http://supreme.justia.com/us/481/615/case.html

SHAARE TEFILA CONGREGATION V. COBB, 481 U. S. 615 (1987)
 
Back in the seventies a Jewish family lived across the street from my grandmother in Miami. They told us how they'd lost family members in the holocaust. The size of the holocaust may have been exaggerated but I think it probably really happened.

A good way to verify it would be to go to Holland and ask some elderly people. I saw the documentary "World at War". I forgot how many Jews they said were taken away from Holland but it was pretty high. If that's true, lot's of people in Holland will tell you that they lost loved ones.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Back in the seventies a Jewish family lived across the street from my grandmother in Miami. They told us how they'd lost family members in the holocaust. The size of the holocaust may have been exaggerated but I think it probably really happened.

A good way to verify it would be to go to Holland and ask some elderly people. I saw the documentary "World at War". I forgot how many Jews they said were taken away from Holland but it was pretty high. If that's true, lot's of people in Holland will tell you that they lost loved ones.
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It was not exaggerated. The deniers will have won a small victory if you believe it was.
 
It was not exaggerated. The deniers will have won a small victory if you believe it was.
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I'm not in a position to know or believe anything. It may turn out that it happened exactly the way the official version says it did. The only way I know to get a good idea of what happened would be to go live in Holland for about six months and talk to as many elderly people as I could. I never simply accept the official version of anything but the official version isn't just automatically false.

This is something I haven't investigated in depth so I can't really opine. There may be some truth to the theory that what really happened is a bit or a lot different from what we're told. One tactic the government uses to discredit the conspiracy theories that are true is to put out plants to start whacky theories so they can be associated with the legitimate theories. This may turn out to be the case with the theory that the holocaust never happened. But, as I said, I can't start opining seriously until I've done some serious investigation.
 
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