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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Matthew Ellard said:
I simply assume that no witness had ever seen a gas chamber before and someone thought it was a steam chamber. It doesn't really matter as gas chambers were consistently mentioned in all early reports.

I like tanks. The British HMO published a book with all the classified early exchanges between intelligence services and eyewitnesses concerning the Tiger. It has the same small errors. I assume it's the nature of early intelligence.
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Yes you are probably right - It would be a truly awful way to go. I dont think even the SS could have kept their dignity with that
 
Clayton Moore said:
There are no deniers.
There are no deniers.
There are no deniers.
There are no deniers.
There are no deniers.
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It needs music and the lyrics need a bit of tidying up. Let us all try the music from Yes, we have no bananas....

Mmmhh..mmmhhh.....cough..... cough and a 1 and a 2 and a 3....

Yes! We have no deniers........ We have no deniers, today!
 
MG1962 said:
Yes you are probably right - It would be a truly awful way to go. I dont think even the SS could have kept their dignity with that
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It might be something to do with the word "steam chamber" not translating from the polish original words used. Sadly I can't speak Polish and I don't know what the Polish eyewitnesses informed Dr Schwarzbart or even how they informed him.

You know the problems with translations. Americans post the mail into a mail box. English mail the post into a postal pillar box. I imagine wartime Polish translations ending up as "steam chamber" are even less fun.
 
Matthew Ellard said:
It needs music and the lyrics need a bit of tidying up. Let us all try the music from Yes, we have no bananas....

Mmmhh..mmmhhh.....cough..... cough and a 1 and a 2 and a 3....

Yes! We have no deniers........ We have no deniers, today!
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.
Don't call us, we'll call you.



Don't quit your day job...
.
 
MG1962 said:
Mathew, what it is, Rabbit's cobbling together seeming bits of authoritive information to create some sort of franken-holocaust denial story. For example Gutkowski entitled "The Scroll of Agony and Destruction. Is actually The scroll of agony - it was not a text but a reproduction of a diary, by some else entirely

Gutkowski - or should we say Jacob Grojanowski who's real name was Szlamek Bajler wrote a detailed account of Chelmno extermination camp. Here is a translation of his diary.

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/bajler.html

So once again rabbit you cover yourself in glory. Using dishonest quotes to build on your own intelectual dishonety. It is strange that for the claims that the holocaust is not real, so much proof has to be made up
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This is confusing me. Gutkowski has to have been Eliayhu Gutkowski, no? Member of Right Poalei Zion and one of the secretaries to Oyneg Shabes. Szlamek was someone else entirely: according to Kassow he was probably Shlomo Fajner but may have been Shlomo Bajler. His testimony of Chelmno was recorded by Hersh Wasser, who called him Jacob Grojanowksi to conceal his identity. This was the name Szlamek had taken after his escape from Chelmno as he made his way to Warsaw.

It was Szlamek's nephew, Abram Beiler or Bajler, who informed the OS by postcard that Szalmek had been deported from Zamosc (to Belzec?) after he'd moved on from Warsaw.

I do not believe that Szlamek has any connection to Treblinka, the labor camp of which was well known in Warsaw by winter 1941-1942; as Jews from cities and small towns around Poland were being deported, OS activists were trying to determine to where. They were receiving reports of Belzec and Sobibor at this time as well as information about construction of a similar camp near Warsaw. Anyway, I don't think Gutkowski was another pseudonym of Szlamek.
 
LemmyCaution said:
This is confusing me. Gutkowski has to have been Eliayhu Gutkowski, no? Member of Right Poalei Zion and one of the secretaries to Oyneg Shabes. Szlamek was someone else entirely: according to Kassow he was probably Shlomo Fajner but may have been Shlomo Bajler. His testimony of Chelmno was recorded by Hersh Wasser, who called him Jacob Grojanowksi to conceal his identity. This was the name Szlamek had taken after his escape from Chelmno as he made his way to Warsaw.

It was Szlamek's nephew, Abram Beiler or Bajler, who informed the OS by postcard that Szalmek had been deported from Zamosc (to Belzec?) after he'd moved on from Warsaw.

I do not believe that Szlamek has any connection to Treblinka, the labor camp of which was well known in Warsaw by winter 1941-1942; as Jews from cities and small towns around Poland were being deported, OS activists were trying to determine to where. They were receiving reports of Belzec and Sobibor at this time as well as information about construction of a similar camp near Warsaw. Anyway, I don't think Gutkowski was another pseudonym of Szlamek.
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Shame, thought it must be too good to be true.

But Lemmy Caution, surely you are agreed the Yad Vashem Studies Issue 21 is a quarterly and dates from 2001 and has a Bishop as its page 3 girl?

And all the other drivel that has dribbled out of a certain fellow's mouth?

http://www.lekket.com/data/articles/001-021-006_000.pdf
Article:
Sakowska, Ruta, "Two Forms of Resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto; Two Functions of the
Ringelblum Archives"
Published in:
Yad Vashem Studies 21 (1991) 189-219

Funny to see you get so smug last night about Grojanowksi = Gutkowski.....but since it went pear-shaped you had to call in the services of the Back-Up Team to sort things out.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
This is confusing me. Gutkowski has to have been Eliayhu Gutkowski, no? Member of Right Poalei Zion and one of the secretaries to Oyneg Shabes. Szlamek was someone else entirely: according to Kassow he was probably Shlomo Fajner but may have been Shlomo Bajler. His testimony of Chelmno was recorded by Hersh Wasser, who called him Jacob Grojanowksi to conceal his identity. This was the name Szlamek had taken after his escape from Chelmno as he made his way to Warsaw.
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The problem is Rabbit is assigning authorship to Gutkowski of a document that was actually written under the pen name Jacob Grojanowksi.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Funny to see you get so smug last night about Grojanowksi = Gutkowski.....but since it went pear-shaped you had to call in the services of the Back-Up Team to sort things out.
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Grasp at straws, grasp at straws. You are still wrong about who you claimed wrote the scroll. You claimed Gutkowski wrote it...umm no he didn't

Still hanging on to your claim it mentions Treblinka? Why is it the translation I provided says no such thing?
 
Matthew Ellard said:
I'm used to this tactic from Holocaust deniers. On the Skeptic society forum there is a similar thread from a holocaust denier but this time claiming it was a radio broadcast.


Here is the claim by deniers on that forum.
The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
It's complete rubbish.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15394
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I clicked on your link just to see how things were going over at Skeptics.com and I see David is still giving you one very extended spanking after another. Great stuff ! Thanks.
 
MG1962 said:
I actually wish there was some real historical discussions in the forum, cause I find all their posts extremely interesting reads
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We try,but the deniers keep going off into Neo Nazi Fantasyland.
 
The scary aspect of this thread is that it's okay to call down the German people and much of Europe, the Catholic Church, and the US as complicit to an alleged genocide but it's a criminal offense and/or racist to disagree.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The scary aspect of this thread is that it's okay to call down the German people and much of Europe, the Catholic Church, and the US as complicit to an alleged genocide but it's a criminal offense and/or racist to disagree.
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Criminal? Only in some places and in those places you really have to be doing something else besides just disagreeing (though I do think the laws are wrong).

Racist? No, not racist. But anti-Semitic for sure.
 
Clayton Moore said:
You'll find that most posters here, save little more than a chosen few, say it did happen and that the Germans ordered it to happen but nobody actually did it(the labor).
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Your inability to understand logistics is not equivalent to your being correct.
 
Raleigh Marsden said:
The holocaust didn't happen.
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The holocaust did not happen, but that is only one half the story. The other half is that the holohoax did happen, that is, the Jews conducted a systematic well organized and extensive campaign to convince the world that the holocaust did happen. It started with articles appearing the in the NYT as early as 1906 ! claiming that the Russians were in the process of exterminating six million Jews. It picked up steam during WW I, and there were countless article in the NYT and other Jewish press claiming that the Jews were being exterminated in Europe. This is documented in the book "The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During World War One". The Jews were well prepared when WW II came along.
 
Wroclaw said:
Your inability to understand logistics is not equivalent to your being correct.
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Skip the labor. All that matters are lies by liars. 50 billion dollars please.

A really great scam begets a scam.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/17/us-israel-holocaust-idUSL1715469820070717

Israel's Holocaust "second generation" sue Germany

Thousands of offspring of Nazi Holocaust survivors in Israel are seeking reparations from Germany to pay for psychiatric treatment they say they require as a result of trauma suffered by their parents.

Baruch Mazor, director of a Tel Aviv-based attorneys' fund behind the campaign, said on Tuesday he had taken the unusual step of filing a lawsuit against Berlin in a Tel Aviv court, in a bid to press Germany to negotiate his group's demands.

The lawsuit was seen as the first ever filed by representatives of the so-called "second generation" or those descended from the survivors of the World War Two slayings of six million Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe.

Mazor said his group, representing some of the 400,000 Israelis born to survivors, wants Germany to fund twice weekly therapy sessions for three years for up to 20,000 people he says need counseling because of their parents' wartime trauma.

The suit lists no composite sum, Mazor said, but estimated that the psychiatric care in question cost some 600 Israeli shekels a week per person, which could add up to some 300 million euros in total if all victims claimed the compensation.
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Germany has so far paid out about 64 billion euros in compensation, in reparations to Israel and to the Claims Conference that won restitution to Holocaust victims worldwide in the late 1990s.
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German Mythophobics and Liticaphobics have countered this move with state of the art anal protection devices flown in from France.
 
Oh dear. You're not laboring under the misconception that just because someone monetarily abuses a situation that the situation is thereby rendered false, are you?
 
Wroclaw said:
Oh dear. You're not laboring under the misconception that just because someone monetarily abuses a situation that the situation is thereby rendered false, are you?
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Yes dear. People lie for money. Get over it. Books, movies, neoconservatives, mainstream media, PNAC, museums.
 
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