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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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No, sorry, that's not how it works.

There are literally hundreds of books written on the massacres in the occupied Soviet Union and they sit quite comfortably in libraries around the world; many are in print and can be ordered online or bought in good bookstores. These books refer in turn to 100s of journal articles and 1000s of documents along with the results of 1000s of investigations and trials, totalling millions of pages of unpublished materials.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Dq...&resnum=3&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false The point being that if Saggy wants to deny or revise something, and to be taken seriously in doing so, he has to show familiarity with the thing he is denying as a minimal starting point. By proving himself unable to meet this low standard, and quibbling about it, Saggy only demonstrates that he is not to be taken seriously and that his denial is the vacuous farting of a overblown bigot.
 
Well maybe the discussion should be the disconnect between the "scholars" version of the holocaust and the public perception of the holocaust. If the great unwashed believes the holocaust to be one thing while all the intellectual elite know it to be something else, why aren't the intellectual elite doing anything to properly educate the public? Every historical event has it's share of hair brained eyewitnesses but I've never seen nor heard of, e.g., a soldier during the Vietnam war say he escaped from a POW prison and survived by being adopted by wolves. Mischa was so obviously a fraud it should never have gotten off the ground. And we still have mini-Mischas traveling the holocaust lecture circuit today. Irene Zisblatt and Dennis Avery are two that I can think of off the top of my head.

By your logic, there wouldn't be any problem with creationism, or intelligent design, or whatever it's called these days being taught in public schools because all the in-the-know ivory tower elite know that evolution is a far better explanation for how we got where we are.

And as far as the six million goes, I'd like to see a public figure get away with saying anything else. When the Pope said "millions" while speaking in Israel, Rabbi Lau slammed him for not say "six." Even saying six million Jews weren't gassed will get you labelled a holocaust denier even though nobody has ever said that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers.
Nick Terry has already answered this silly post better than I can. Still, I want to add a few points.

My post did not set up a dichotomy between ivory-tower, elitist scholars and the great unwashed masses. Rather, as in so many areas of life, there are smart (and not so smart) people who bother to investigate and learn about something in detail. And there are usually many more people, some of them smart and generally well informed (and some not so), who, although interested in the topic, may have other interests that claim their time and focus or may not possess the specific tools required for the subject at hand, leaving them generally and superficially aware of the topic. These people aren't unwashed masses in contrast to elitist scholars: they may very well be highly educated (and quite adept at other fields of interest) and smart as hell but lacking in topic specific knowledge. In the case of the Holocaust, Saggy's heroes left members of the diverse public receptive to a few attention-getters and sensationalizers by virtue of the unimaginable and horrific nature of their crimes against Jews and others.

Further to this, Holocaust scholars are nearly all researchers and teachers. As teachers, they properly educate their students, of course. As researchers, they write about the topic, and, while most of their work is specialist in nature, many of these scholars have written books aimed at the general reading and educated public. Many scholars, much to the dismay and annoyance of deniers, make media appearances, give interviews, and provide commentary for documentaries and the like. All these activities are so obviously educational and effective that rather ill-informed deniers like Saggy are irritated enough by them to trot out cliches about ivory towers and the like to show their disdain.

Finally, scholar and public figure Raul Hilberg, Saggy's favorite Holocaust researcher, very publicly repeated a figure of Jews killed in the Holocaust nearly 1 million below the 6 million number, which Saggy claims to be inviolable. Hilberg's 3-volume work on the Holocaust, citing 5.1 million Jewish deaths, is considered by many, of course, the definitive single comprehensive work on the Holocaust. In Saggy's world, Hilberg's maintenance of a figure almost 1 million less than the popularly held figure could not have happened. In the real world, it did.
 
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http://books.google.com/books?id=Dq...&resnum=3&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false The point being that if Saggy wants to deny or revise something, and to be taken seriously in doing so, he has to show familiarity with the thing he is denying as a minimal starting point. By proving himself unable to meet this low standard, and quibbling about it, Saggy only demonstrates that he is not to be taken seriously and that his denial is the vacuous farting of a overblown bigot.

Reading lies by liars that's the ticket.
 
Reading lies by liars that's the ticket.
Saggy's first struggle is to come up with a short list of what your lot call "lies" about major massacres. He can't even do that. So are you volunteering to help him with this basic task? And then will you move on to discussing the problems you have with scholarship, or as Nick Terry put it, the
literally hundreds of books written on the massacres in the occupied Soviet Union [which] sit quite comfortably in libraries around the world; many are in print and can be ordered online or bought in good bookstores.
I helped out by linking to Arad at Google books, so that Saggy wouldn't have to find make the slightest effort to locate one of these 100s of books. Are you now going to explain to us the issues you take with Arad and other scholars of these massacres? And what moves you to call these authors liars?
 
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All true, but deniers are utterly addicted to playing on the ignorance of the 'man in the street' to mobilise resentment against the eggheads who supposedly have 'kept something hidden'.

Here is a chimp on another forum, trying to spell out the "method":

You have to explain that there isn't 1 History, but 3.
1) Revisionism. You have to say: we don't consider Revisionism now. No Revisionism.
2) The official History. We now will speak only about official History.
3) The history that 99,9% knows. It isn't the official History. It is mostly fantasy, films, tales and so on.
Then you can explain the hundreds of things that are in the official history and are so different from the films and the tales And also those hidden to the people. There are so many. You have to explain the difference between reality and tales, a scholar, you explain, must say what, how, when, how much... So you slowly show a real camp, a real crematorium, a real forced labour, you speak about the orders, the bureocracy. In the real life there were orders, plans, etc.... You are protected because you are speaking only relating on official history, not Revisionism. So the guy in front will have to think: "why I'didnt know?" "Why someone hide to me?" This is the first step to get because the burden now isn't upon you (the bad Revisionist). It is upon the good boys who hid so many arguments, or distorted them. May be they weren't so good. You are winning the first round, i.e you are titled to speak and listened with respect. The first step. Revisionism is later. Slowly.

There are of course a number of things wrong with this.

Firstly, there is no such thing as "official history", especially not with an international event, in the manner implied by the chimp above. Wars generate official histories commissioned by governments to detail one side's participation. But military history is also studied and researched at universities without any government directives, and it's most especially researched by probably 1000s of amateurs who have written a truly staggering number of books on different conflicts.

The Holocaust is no different. Yad Vashem can be considered an official Israeli government agency and its products could just about at a stretch be considered 'official'. But YV is hardly alone in writing about the Holocaust. It is just one more research unit producing output, no more and no less.

YV is slowly producing a series entitled the 'Comprehensive History of the Holocaust', one volume was written by Christopher Browning, an American historian with the University of North Carolina. Browning repeats many points and arguments he made in writings stretching back over a quarter of a century, without any 'official' stamp of approval. His interpretations are moreover contested very publicly and visibly within the field by other historians. Christian Gerlach flatly disagrees with Browning on his interpretation of the Eichmann interrogations, and published to this effect in Holocaust and Genocide Studies. HGS may be sponsored by USHMM which in turn is a federal government agency, but this does not mean that Gerlach's interpretation is all of a sudden the official US stance on the topic of Eichmann's testimony whereas Browning's is the official Israeli stance. Browning actually went into even more detail on Eichmann in a book published by the University of Chicago Press. Other historians - British and German among others - have similarly published about Eichmann for all manner of presses, including straight commercial publishers w/o a university press tag.

A historian, even a lowly undergraduate, encounters all these arguments as an ongoing debate over interpretations, as a historiographical controversy. Students might be set contrasting texts arguing different positions, specifically in order to get them to weigh up and evaluate conflicting interpretations. In the safety of the classroom, it actually doesn't matter as much whether they 'agree' with one or the other position so much as they can justify why they agree or disagree. This simple but effective technique is used with virtually every topic imaginable. Nowhere in such discussions would it be even vaguely relevant whether the interpretation was published "officially" or by a university press, as long as the field recognised the interpretation of being worthy of inclusion. In some cases - as with Goldhagen - obviously wrong interpretations are still taught in contrast to other interpretations because they are provocatively wrong.

Thus, asking an academic historian which interpretation of what facts might be definitive is actually fairly dumb. They might prefer one over the other, and use their preferences in their own work - in my case, for example, I would very much argue against Browning on a number of points - but they are not in the business of dictating an "official" history.


Secondly, the chimp has the sweet and touching notion that the powers that be, historians, whoever, are somehow hiding things, when in actual fact information about the past, including the Holocaust, has never been more open than it is right now. Google books gives everyone a free glimpse into academic texts should they wish, amazon delivers them to your doorstep in a matter of a few days, the much berated Wikipedia references a great many texts in considerable detail, and if you can read de.wikipedia or fr.wikipedia then you get even more references from them as well. For the Holocaust, the situation is even more open because in the past 10 years a vast amount of material has been scanned and uploaded to the internet, the entire run of Nuremberg volumes (Blue, Red, Green series) can be downloaded, digital libraries make available a great many key texts from the 1940s onwards, and other websites scan and upload a great many documents and other books.

The only conceivable sense in which information can be considered occult is if the chimp decides not to look up the facts through the regular channels. Reading, and research, is no different to the six degrees of separation game. A single decently researched book will point you at, usually, another 200-500 other books and articles, which in turn point you to a similar number of publications, and so on. All too often, what is supposedly 'hidden' turns out to be in plain sight, what is 'mysterious' is anything but to someone familiar with the subject, what is 'distorted' is simply the strawman in the chimp's own head.


It is the sheerest ignorance and laziness to contrast populist misconceptions and strawmen against scholarship and think that there is anything unusual about this. Virtually every subject has its misconceptions and myths - the Poles did not charge German tanks with lances in 1939, for example - and their persistence does not signify anything at all about what happened in the past. Collective memory/popular understanding =/= history.

What these denier strawmen about 'official history' and the 'history that everyone knows' reveal is only the utter irrelevance of revisionism to proper scholarship. It's hardly a secret that the media can aid in the persistence of populist myths and misconceptions. The hopeless populism of denial may be mimicked in other CTs and other forms of woo, and it may indeed be the reason why maybe a few people each year decide to drink this particular brand of Kool-Aid. But you have to be extremely thick to think that wailing endlessly about what the media know about history is actually addressing the subject honestly and properly.
 
Saggy's first struggle is to come up with a short list of what your lot call "lies" about major massacres. He can't even do that. So are you volunteering to help him with this basic task? And then will you move on to discussing the problems you have with scholarship, or as Nick Terry put it, the I helped out by linking to Arad at Google books, so that Saggy wouldn't have to find make the slightest effort to locate one of these 100s of books. Are you now going to explain to us the issues you take with Arad and other scholars of these massacres? And what moves you to call these authors liars?

And who is your lot?
 
A historian, even a lowly undergraduate, encounters all these arguments as an ongoing debate over interpretations, as a historiographical controversy. Students might be set contrasting texts arguing different positions, specifically in order to get them to weigh up and evaluate conflicting interpretations. . . .
Which means, of course, that the Holocaust is studied and debated just like history, golly gee.
 
Nick
You seem to have slipped out a side door when LemmyCaution told us that Jewish men performed the labor required to kill 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers.



LemmyCaution tells us
Quote:
I think that Jews also sorted goods taken from arriving victims, cleaned the trains that brought them, and were forced to carry out other tasks to "process" victims brought to the death camps.


Meaning Jewish people packed Jewish women and Jewish children into gas chambers, millions of them, over a 3 year period. And since they were the slave laborers they did the unpacking of the Jewish women and Jewish children, millions of them, from the gas chambers and then cremated or buried them.

Could Jewish people be forced to do that? I say no.

And I'm the one who is supposed to hate Jews because I know they could not be made to do that?

xx

Originally Posted by Wroclaw View Post
Do you deny all atrocities committed by unwilling participants? Do you, for instance, deny there was a genocide in Rwanda in 1994 committed in part by people who were impressed into doing so by their government, being told that, unless they killed, they themselves would be killed?

That's a yes or no question, by the way.

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.


xx


Originally Posted by Wroclaw View Post
First of all, what you've posted above is what's called a "straw man," and you should look up what that means so that you know not to use them in your debating. It makes you look feeble.

Second, tens of thousands of Jewish men weren't necessary. Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers. Nor would I say that most of the preceding knew precisely what was going on or how to prevent it. None of them, or at least extremely few, did it willingly.

Third, you didn't answer the question about Rwanda.



But that's not what I asked.



And it's not my version...

Back to the nobody knew. And the even more idiotic, cornered rat like, there were only hundreds.

Quote:
Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers

So who did the labor for the gas chambers?

So who did the labor for the crematoriums?

So who did the labor for the burning pits?

So who did the labor for the mass burials?


Let me remind you.

Quote:
Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.



xx

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Why would reasonable person want to do something as dishonest as give you and your kind legitimacy?
Who denies the Holocaust happened? Not I. Nor did Eisenhower, Churchill, or de Gaulle; however, they all believed as I do, that there were no gas chambers. That means the fact that Holocaust scholars demand be believed, 3 million Jewish children, women, and men were killed in gas chambers by Jewish men, is a prevarication.

xx

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You have no clue how many Jews Hitler murdered, you can't come up with a number?
I already provided a maximum number of those who died from disease and starvation. The insanity, of isolating and interpreting a few statements out of trillions as a sign from the devil that Germany was intent on eliminating Jewish people from Europe by killing them, not forcing them to leave, is yours.


Really, I'd think you people would be pleased that Jewish men did not murder 3 million Jewish children, women, and men.


xx

When you make up a lie about 6 million being killed why would should I think they were even real people.

I'm told a lie about Jewish men killing 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers and I'm supposed to believe the 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men existed? Yeah sure.


Remember that story about the boy who cried wolf? Hopefully the next time the 6 million lost number is used it too will be a lie.
xx
 
And who is your lot?
Is what you mean that you will avoid helping Saggy list large-scale Nazi massacres of Jews in the East? And that you will not offer any support for your rather vehement opinions against Arad and other scholars of these massacres? And that you won't explain why you call the authors of works describing and debating these massacres liars?

You certainly seem to ignore and evade a lot of questions.

As to my lot, I work for Mossad and, as I have noted previously, enjoy decent but not great pay along with excellent working conditions, positive reinforcement, advanced training and education, and a chance for advancement based on my meeting metrics outlined by my handlers but to which I am not privy.
 
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All true, but deniers are utterly addicted to playing on the ignorance of the 'man in the street' to mobilise resentment against the eggheads who supposedly have 'kept something hidden'.

Here is a chimp on another forum, trying to spell out the "method":



There are of course a number of things wrong with this.

Firstly, there is no such thing as "official history", especially not with an international event, in the manner implied by the chimp above. Wars generate official histories commissioned by governments to detail one side's participation. But military history is also studied and researched at universities without any government directives, and it's most especially researched by probably 1000s of amateurs who have written a truly staggering number of books on different conflicts.

The Holocaust is no different. Yad Vashem can be considered an official Israeli government agency and its products could just about at a stretch be considered 'official'. But YV is hardly alone in writing about the Holocaust. It is just one more research unit producing output, no more and no less.

YV is slowly producing a series entitled the 'Comprehensive History of the Holocaust', one volume was written by Christopher Browning, an American historian with the University of North Carolina. Browning repeats many points and arguments he made in writings stretching back over a quarter of a century, without any 'official' stamp of approval. His interpretations are moreover contested very publicly and visibly within the field by other historians. Christian Gerlach flatly disagrees with Browning on his interpretation of the Eichmann interrogations, and published to this effect in Holocaust and Genocide Studies. HGS may be sponsored by USHMM which in turn is a federal government agency, but this does not mean that Gerlach's interpretation is all of a sudden the official US stance on the topic of Eichmann's testimony whereas Browning's is the official Israeli stance. Browning actually went into even more detail on Eichmann in a book published by the University of Chicago Press. Other historians - British and German among others - have similarly published about Eichmann for all manner of presses, including straight commercial publishers w/o a university press tag.

A historian, even a lowly undergraduate, encounters all these arguments as an ongoing debate over interpretations, as a historiographical controversy. Students might be set contrasting texts arguing different positions, specifically in order to get them to weigh up and evaluate conflicting interpretations. In the safety of the classroom, it actually doesn't matter as much whether they 'agree' with one or the other position so much as they can justify why they agree or disagree. This simple but effective technique is used with virtually every topic imaginable. Nowhere in such discussions would it be even vaguely relevant whether the interpretation was published "officially" or by a university press, as long as the field recognised the interpretation of being worthy of inclusion. In some cases - as with Goldhagen - obviously wrong interpretations are still taught in contrast to other interpretations because they are provocatively wrong.

Thus, asking an academic historian which interpretation of what facts might be definitive is actually fairly dumb. They might prefer one over the other, and use their preferences in their own work - in my case, for example, I would very much argue against Browning on a number of points - but they are not in the business of dictating an "official" history.


Secondly, the chimp has the sweet and touching notion that the powers that be, historians, whoever, are somehow hiding things, when in actual fact information about the past, including the Holocaust, has never been more open than it is right now. Google books gives everyone a free glimpse into academic texts should they wish, amazon delivers them to your doorstep in a matter of a few days, the much berated Wikipedia references a great many texts in considerable detail, and if you can read de.wikipedia or fr.wikipedia then you get even more references from them as well. For the Holocaust, the situation is even more open because in the past 10 years a vast amount of material has been scanned and uploaded to the internet, the entire run of Nuremberg volumes (Blue, Red, Green series) can be downloaded, digital libraries make available a great many key texts from the 1940s onwards, and other websites scan and upload a great many documents and other books.

The only conceivable sense in which information can be considered occult is if the chimp decides not to look up the facts through the regular channels. Reading, and research, is no different to the six degrees of separation game. A single decently researched book will point you at, usually, another 200-500 other books and articles, which in turn point you to a similar number of publications, and so on. All too often, what is supposedly 'hidden' turns out to be in plain sight, what is 'mysterious' is anything but to someone familiar with the subject, what is 'distorted' is simply the strawman in the chimp's own head.


It is the sheerest ignorance and laziness to contrast populist misconceptions and strawmen against scholarship and think that there is anything unusual about this. Virtually every subject has its misconceptions and myths - the Poles did not charge German tanks with lances in 1939, for example - and their persistence does not signify anything at all about what happened in the past. Collective memory/popular understanding =/= history.

What these denier strawmen about 'official history' and the 'history that everyone knows' reveal is only the utter irrelevance of revisionism to proper scholarship. It's hardly a secret that the media can aid in the persistence of populist myths and misconceptions. The hopeless populism of denial may be mimicked in other CTs and other forms of woo, and it may indeed be the reason why maybe a few people each year decide to drink this particular brand of Kool-Aid. But you have to be extremely thick to think that wailing endlessly about what the media know about history is actually addressing the subject honestly and properly.

So is chimp the NEO Goy/goyim?
 
So is chimp the NEO Goy/goyim?

Would it matter the answer. You are just going to ring your hands, claim it is all lies and press on.

But here is some home work for you. It will entertain me greatly to see you struggle so. How many people are buried in a 300 yard by 300 yard by 4 yard pit under the center of Paris
 
Nick
You seem to have slipped out a side door when LemmyCaution told us that Jewish men performed the labor required to kill 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers.

Meaning Jewish people packed Jewish women and Jewish children into gas chambers, millions of them, over a 3 year period. And since they were the slave laborers they did the unpacking of the Jewish women and Jewish children, millions of them, from the gas chambers and then cremated or buried them.

Could Jewish people be forced to do that? I say no.

And I'm the one who is supposed to hate Jews because I know they could not be made to do that?

xx

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.


xx

Back to the nobody knew. And the even more idiotic, cornered rat like, there were only hundreds.


So who did the labor for the gas chambers?

So who did the labor for the crematoriums?

So who did the labor for the burning pits?

So who did the labor for the mass burials?

Let me remind you.

Quote:
Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.


xx

Who denies the Holocaust happened? Not I. Nor did Eisenhower, Churchill, or de Gaulle; however, they all believed as I do, that there were no gas chambers. That means the fact that Holocaust scholars demand be believed, 3 million Jewish children, women, and men were killed in gas chambers by Jewish men, is a prevarication.

xx



Really, I'd think you people would be pleased that Jewish men did not murder 3 million Jewish children, women, and men.


xx

xx

Just guessing but I don't think your recycled, if dumbed-down, opinions and mendacious interpretations interest Nick Terry much. When you seem to have lost him was when he told you that before continuing with you, he needed you to try comprehending some basic points he made about the deportations of Jews from around conquered Europe. Perhaps you think that, rather than trying to comprehend what Nick Terry wrote about deportations, if you boldface your blethering it will bring Nick Terry back?
 
Would it matter the answer. You are just going to ring your hands, claim it is all lies and press on.

But here is some home work for you. It will entertain me greatly to see you struggle so. How many people are buried in a 300 yard by 300 yard by 4 yard pit under the center of Paris

So who is your lot? You a chimp hater too?
 
Just guessing but I don't think your recycled, if dumbed-down, opinions and mendacious interpretations interest Nick Terry much. When you seem to have lost him was when he told you that before continuing with you, he needed you to try comprehending some basic points he made about the deportations of Jews from around conquered Europe. Perhaps you think that, rather than trying to comprehend what Nick Terry wrote about deportations, if you boldface your blethering it will bring Nick Terry back?

Indeed. I placed CM on deep ignore about 24 hours ago, so now I not only don't see his posts at all, I don't even see any threads he might start. Deep ignore is a godsend if one is trying to avoid any exposure to truly apocalyptic stupidity.
 
Just guessing but I don't think your recycled, if dumbed-down, opinions and mendacious interpretations interest Nick Terry much. When you seem to have lost him was when he told you that before continuing with you, he needed you to try comprehending some basic points he made about the deportations of Jews from around conquered Europe. Perhaps you think that, rather than trying to comprehend what Nick Terry wrote about deportations, if you boldface your blethering it will bring Nick Terry back?


So who is your lot? You a chimp hater too?

Or just a fawning vacuous groupie?
 
So who is your lot? You a chimp hater too?

Or just a fawning vacuous groupie?
Rather than acting out for Nick Terry's attention and spamming irrelevant spam, why don't you let us hear what you make of Arad's long summary of the Holocaust in the USSR? Or answer Wroclaw on Rwanda? Or MG1962?
 
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Indeed. I placed CM on deep ignore about 24 hours ago, so now I not only don't see his posts at all, I don't even see any threads he might start. Deep ignore is a godsend if one is trying to avoid any exposure to truly apocalyptic stupidity.


How lame. The great man refuses to dirty himself with the truth. Typical.

Maybe the following will soil your day.

Who denies the Holocaust happened? Not I. Nor did Eisenhower, Churchill, or de Gaulle; however, they all believed as I do, that there were no gas chambers. That means the fact that Holocaust scholars demand be believed, 3 million Jewish children, women, and men were killed in gas chambers by Jewish men, is a prevarication.


Jewish men are said to do the labor so Jewish people packed Jewish women and Jewish children into gas chambers, millions of them, over a 3 year period? And since they were the slave laborers they did the unpacking of the Jewish women and Jewish children, millions of them, from the gas chambers and then cremated or buried them?

Could Jewish people be forced to do that? I say no.

And I'm the one who is supposed to hate Jews because I know they could not be made to do that?

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.
 
Meaning Jewish people packed Jewish women and Jewish children into gas chambers, millions of them

You don't read so good. Where was the quote that Jews packed Jews into gas chambers?
I didn't see it.

Maybe its over on the other forum where you're ignoring questions. Could be there.
 
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