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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Clayton Moore said:
The above never happened. Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.
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Nice example of Bald Assertion.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The above never happened.
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On the contrary, it most definitely did and all sources available indicate that it did. You don't get to handwave away all the evidence just on your say-so.

Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.
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Utter nonsense. I was discussing what happened to Polish Jews inside Poland - the majority of European Jews under Nazi control lived right next door to the death camps.

Poland was garrisoned by Nazi security and police forces anyhow, because no occupier leaves his lines of communication undefended. The Nazis had 34,000 police in the main part of occupied Poland in 1942, including collaborators. This was more than enough to round up most of the nearly 2 million Jews living there.

They even used recruits from Waffen-SS training units stationed in Poland. You have to station training units somewhere, right? Also meant there were many thousands of trainees who were good enough to point a rifle in the right direction at unarmed civilians.

You cannot honestly be arguing that manpower was a bottleneck here. It wasn't.
 
Ironically on Monday I took delivery of the following new book

Wolfgang Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen und die deutsche Ordnungspolizei 1939-1945, Verlag Ferdinand Schöningh, Paderborn 2011
Gebundene Ausgabe: 1035 Seiten

It is quite evidently beyond the ken of the latest denier troll to read a book like this, since it is (a) in German (b) more than 1000 pages long and (c) a book.

However, dropped out of a first floor window, it may yet do the trick.
 
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Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.


Nick Terry said:
On the contrary, it most definitely did and all sources available indicate that it did. You don't get to handwave away all the evidence just on your say-so.



Utter nonsense. I was discussing what happened to Polish Jews inside Poland - the majority of European Jews under Nazi control lived right next door to the death camps.

Poland was garrisoned by Nazi security and police forces anyhow, because no occupier leaves his lines of communication undefended. The Nazis had 34,000 police in the main part of occupied Poland in 1942, including collaborators. This was more than enough to round up most of the nearly 2 million Jews living there.

They even used recruits from Waffen-SS training units stationed in Poland. You have to station training units somewhere, right? Also meant there were many thousands of trainees who were good enough to point a rifle in the right direction at unarmed civilians.

You cannot honestly be arguing that manpower was a bottleneck here. It wasn't.
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Numbers don't lie, people do.
 
Wroclaw said:
"Millions of Jews" equals "more than one million."
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"Millions" is plural for million. "Millions of Jews" equals two or more million. "More than one million" equals more than one million.

That's correct. And southern Europe.

But here's what I'm talking about: My own ancestors came to this country from Central Europe about 160 years ago. They were Jewish. I am in the very small minority of American Jews who can trace their ancestry to this group.
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My own ancestors came to the United States from Central and Eastern Europe 120 years ago. Some of them were Jewish. My non-Jewish ancestors also came to this country from Central and Eastern Europe around the same time. So what does that prove?



All true. What's your point?
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The point is that large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Eastern and Central Europe came to the United States between 1880 and the early twentieth century. Large numbers of non-Jews immigrated to the United States from the same place at the same time. The fact that many Jews in America today are descended from the immigrants who arrived during that period doesn't prove that conditions in Europe were particularly difficult for Jews because many non-Jewish white Americans today are also descended from that group of immigrants.
 
Nick Terry said:
a plea to Dogzilla and to TSR - stop fisking each other's posts for a while. It is by now utterly impossible to establish what is being discussed, so would you please commit to a position written up in one or more paragraphs.
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TSR--Nick Terry is right. We're cluttering up this thread with posts that I'm not even sure I can follow anymore. Nobody benefits from that. I apologize and I'll stop.

I'll also do my best to stop my "why do you hate Germans" Tourette's reply everytime somebody asks why me or somebody else hates Jews.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Yeah sure they did. I'll bite. Who's there?

Maybe you've missed the periodic lies about conjured up antisemitic incidents over the past 50 years.
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You've certainly missed reading history books all your life. Why do you hate Jews? Did this happen to you too?
 
Dogzilla said:
I'll also do my best to stop my "why do you hate Germans" Tourette's reply everytime somebody asks why me or somebody else hates Jews.
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Oh, it's OK. We can take it as read that you hate Jews, after all you deny the Holocaust, and you were most vociferous about denying you were a neo-Nazi, so if it's not to apologise for the most loathed regime in history, then it must be because you hate Jews.

The alternative is you are extremely stupid and think this is an appropriate subject for trolling purposes.

Take your pick.
 
Dogzilla said:
TSR--Nick Terry is right. We're cluttering up this thread with posts that I'm not even sure I can follow anymore. Nobody benefits from that. I apologize and I'll stop.

I'll also do my best to stop my "why do you hate Germans" Tourette's reply everytime somebody asks why me or somebody else hates Jews.
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You deny the Holocaust but you would love to see it happen again. That is Jew hating. Just tell us why you hate Jews and the questions will stop.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The above never happened. Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.
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Be more specific. What specific resources would have been unavailable and what amount of resources do you think would have been necessary to gas three million Jews, most of whom were already in Poland to begin with?
 
Dogzilla said:
"Millions" is plural for million. "Millions of Jews" equals two or more million. "More than one million" equals more than one million.
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Irrelevant, as I'd said "millions."

My own ancestors came to the United States from Central and Eastern Europe 120 years ago. Some of them were Jewish. My non-Jewish ancestors also came to this country from Central and Eastern Europe around the same time. So what does that prove?
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What I was stating was relevant to the idea of Central European Jews vs Eastern European Jews and how many from each population emigrated and when.

The point is that large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Eastern and Central Europe came to the United States between 1880 and the early twentieth century. Large numbers of non-Jews immigrated to the United States from the same place at the same time. The fact that many Jews in America today are descended from the immigrants who arrived during that period doesn't prove that conditions in Europe were particularly difficult for Jews because many non-Jewish white Americans today are also descended from that group of immigrants.
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Except how many of those people were living in governments that openly had called for their elimination?

See:

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/english/33.html
 
Clayton Moore said:
Quote:
Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.




Numbers don't lie, people do.
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Especially Nazis.
 
Nick Terry said:
Oh, it's OK. We can take it as read that you hate Jews, after all you deny the Holocaust, and you were most vociferous about denying you were a neo-Nazi, so if it's not to apologise for the most loathed regime in history, then it must be because you hate Jews.

The alternative is you are extremely stupid and think this is an appropriate subject for trolling purposes.

Take your pick.
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Those are the only two possibilities.
 
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