• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
There is no immense evidence. The Red Cross of the day said there was no genocide. All the other organizations close to the situation agreed.

Right. Because we all know that when the Red Cross shows up at your death camp, you lead them right to the gas chambers, don't you?

By the way, when did the Red Cross become a war crimes investigation unit or a corps of historians?
 
Right. Because we all know that when the Red Cross shows up at your death camp, you lead them right to the gas chambers, don't you?

By the way, when did the Red Cross become a war crimes investigation unit or a corps of historians?

That's funny.
 
Idiocy is the typical Zionist response to a question that they cannot answer. There is nothing rhetorical about the question, and there is only one possible answer, none of them believed the 'gas chamber' hoax for an instant.
Along with talking nonsense about the Holocaust, and distorting what historians write, you read poorly: my reference to rhetorical questions was to my own, not to the Churchill silliness.

dafydd, however, gave a good answer to one of my rhetorical questions.
 
. . . the typical Zionist response . . .
What does Zionism have to do with my dismissing Fauri's Churchill bit for what it is--an old gambit? Perhaps you can tell us what the context--political and personal--was for Churchill's writing his history and what intent the work shows. Also, whether Churchill used much archival material, wartime secrets to which he was privy, and other research and documents, and how well he handled sources. How Churchill managed to write 6 volumes in just 2 years whilst readying himself for a political comeback. And what kind of coverage Churchill gave to the war in the Pacific, the IMT, western and eastern wars in Europe, the National Socialist government, concentration camps, mass murder by the Germans of Soviet POWs, the ghettos, deportations of Jews from Germany and mass deportations for forced labor into Germany, T4 and euthanasia, the Hunger Plan and food policy in the East, important battles like Stalingrad, collective punishment and reprisals by the Germans, population redistribution schemes and Germanization of the eastern territories, relations among the Allies, Allied responses to Jewish pleas for help during the wartime, and so on.

Churchill's treatment of these topics and themes seems to me the proper starting place for understanding inclusions and omissions in his history, far better than Faurisson's overused soundbite.

I am curious about what a reader of these volumes has to say about the balance of their coverage, their point of view and focus, their positioning of Churchill himself and his adversaries and rivals, and the influence of the postwar situation on the content.
 
Frankly, I think debating the issue of T4 with someone who has not at least read Lifton is a freaking waste of time. Lifton's work is available for free online, and I already provided a link, as did Lemmy. Ergo, read it, you idiots, and then get back to us.


Frankly, I think debating the issue of T4, while not a freaking waste of time, doesn't fit here. The victims of T4 were not Jews qua Jews (if they were even Jews at all) and as such are no more relevant to a discussion of the holocaust than the shrunken heads or the lampshades are. There's also the fact that nobody denies the existence of T4 so there's nothing to "debate."
 
Strange you dont mention that the ruling was overturned by a Jewish court and Demjanuk is still alive today

Strange you don't mention how these final days of his life are turning out.

I have to give the Israelis credit where credit is due, however. When they made a mistake, they admitted it and let Demanjuk go free. It's too bad the Germans aren't man enough to do the same.

And, BTW, it wasn't a "Jewish court" that freed Demanjuk. It was an "Israeli court." There's a difference between the two. Even though everybody knows that the Israeli government is controlled by the Jews.
 
Frankly, I think debating the issue of T4, while not a freaking waste of time, doesn't fit here. The victims of T4 were not Jews qua Jews (if they were even Jews at all) and as such are no more relevant to a discussion of the holocaust than the shrunken heads or the lampshades are. There's also the fact that nobody denies the existence of T4 so there's nothing to "debate."
And yet Saggy tries to whitewash the program by calling it "mercy killing." And then Saggy goes further asking for the documents as though none exist. And Little Grey Rabbit turns up to say stupid things about the Hitler note of October 1939, trying to cast doubt on it and the program by calling it the most pathetic document ever. And finally you chimed in a few times with a dismal attempt to support Little Grey Rabbit. So I don't really take your statement on face value and in fact have read denier arguments, usually provoked by the desperate attempt to wave off gas chambers as a preventive action, doubting T4, minimizing the numbers of T4 victims, and, like Saggy, sanitizing the operation to the extent that it has to be admitted.

Of course, T4 used the murder technique of gassing, which was later used in the death camps, and many T4 personnel wound up working in the AR camps, not to mention that the same Volkish ideology shaped both the euthanasia and anti-Jewish murder programs, so your claim that there is no connection between the T4 killings and the killings of Jews is specious. 14f13 seems to me to be another bridge between killing programs.
 
What does Zionism have to do with my dismissing Fauri's Churchill bit for what it is--an old gambit? Perhaps you can tell us what the context--political and personal--was for Churchill's writing his history and what intent the work shows. Also, whether Churchill used much archival material, wartime secrets to which he was privy, and other research and documents, and how well he handled sources. How Churchill managed to write 6 volumes in just 2 years whilst readying himself for a political comeback. And what kind of coverage Churchill gave to the war in the Pacific, the IMT, western and eastern wars in Europe, the National Socialist government, concentration camps, mass murder by the Germans of Soviet POWs, the ghettos, deportations of Jews from Germany and mass deportations for forced labor into Germany, T4 and euthanasia, the Hunger Plan and food policy in the East, important battles like Stalingrad, collective punishment and reprisals by the Germans, population redistribution schemes and Germanization of the eastern territories, relations among the Allies, Allied responses to Jewish pleas for help during the wartime, and so on.

Churchill's treatment of these topics and themes seems to me the proper starting place for understanding inclusions and omissions in his history, far better than Faurisson's overused soundbite.

I am curious about what a reader of these volumes has to say about the balance of their coverage, their point of view and focus, their positioning of Churchill himself and his adversaries and rivals, and the influence of the postwar situation on the content.

Wow! After all that nonsensical drivel you must be starving.

Bottom line, forget 6 million Jews, lets say 3 million Jewish men, women and children went or were brought to Polish camps for execution in a 3 year period. After a year, 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. With no outcry or the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?

After another year, another 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. Again with no outcry and the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?


After another year, another 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. Again with no outcry and the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?

No outcry till the 1970's.
 
a plea to Dogzilla and to TSR - stop fisking each other's posts for a while. It is by now utterly impossible to establish what is being discussed, so would you please commit to a position written up in one or more paragraphs.
.
Pardon, Nick, but I announced (and have kept to my word) two days before your post that I would not respond directly to DZ for six months.

My "position" (supported by mountains of evidence) is that the Nazis, in furtherance of of a nation policy, murdered more than 5 million Jews and roughly that many others, by a range of means, not least of which were gas chambers, but including rounding them up and shooting them in the head and simply subjecting them to conditions where they literally worked to death.

Concise enough for you?
.
 
Last edited:
After a year, 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. With no outcry or the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?

May I suggest you look a bit ignorant here. In November 1942 Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart gave a London speech specifically about executions at Treblinka that was reproduced in early 1943 in the Black Book of Polish Jewry and published by sponsors Albert Einstein and Eleanor Roosevelt. The Hofle telegram is an SS document that states 713,555 people were already sent to Treblinka prior to 30Dec1942 and never seen again although 313,000 mens overcoats were shipped back to Warsaw from Treblinka during this same period on another SS document.

PS Albert Einstein is a well known scientist and Eleanor Roosevelt was married to the president of the United States. The United States of America is a large country that sits between Mexico and Canada.


No outcry till the 1970's.
How about you do some basic history reading first before you make any more klangers.
 
The way some folks here first deny the holocaust and then are annoyed when called antisemites remind me of David Irving's argument in the Deborah Lipdstadt trial. He sued her, you see, so as to stop the dirty Jews from continuing their international conspiracy of lies against him that uses all that money they've got to label him an antisemite.

Yes, I am paraphrasing, but not by much. Some people have no self-awareness at all.
.
The term you're looking for is "The Traditional Enemies Of Free Speech."

Which is ironic, given how many times he has sued to prevent others from exercising that right, and how few times (never) he has been successful at it.

In fact, he is on record as having waited for La Lipstadt's tome to be published in England so that he wouldn't be limited by "that pesky First Amendment."
.
 
There is no immense evidence. The Red Cross of the day said there was no genocide. All the other organizations close to the situation agreed.
.
But, of course, you will be unable to document your lies about the Red Cross and "all other organizations".







Go ahead; I dare you to try: I'm in a pissy mood tonite.
.
 
Frankly, I think debating the issue of T4, while not a freaking waste of time, doesn't fit here. The victims of T4 were not Jews qua Jews (if they were even Jews at all) and as such are no more relevant to a discussion of the holocaust than the shrunken heads or the lampshades are. There's also the fact that nobody denies the existence of T4 so there's nothing to "debate."

So you accept six Nazi gas chambers then. That's progress, I suppose.
 
Wow! After all that nonsensical drivel you must be starving.

Bottom line, forget 6 million Jews, lets say 3 million Jewish men, women and children went or were brought to Polish camps for execution in a 3 year period. After a year, 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. With no outcry or the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?

After another year, another 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. Again with no outcry and the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?


After another year, another 1 million would have been killed and and their bodies disposed of. Again with no outcry and the Allie's reconnaissance flights not noticing?

No outcry till the 1970's.
In other words, you haven't read Churchill's history either (nor apparently Faurisson's own explanation of what he makes of Churchill's omissions); you missed the Allied and Jewish wartime statements on the slaughter along with reports from even the Polish resistance; and you are not one to lament the postwar "show trials" at Nuremberg, in Poland, in other German cities, in Israel, trials of which you seem not to have heard. (PS - Your chronology is so wildly off that it's comical. Can you even summarize the history you are trying to "revise"?)
 
Last edited:
Actually the Red Cross of the day informed US diplomats in Switzerland that there was a genocide.

To be precise Carl Jacob Burckhardt told US diplomats that he had seen an order signed by Hitler saying all Jews must be killed by December 1942.

Obviously Carl Jacob Burckhardt was lying in as much he saw no such signed order - irrespective of whether you believe such a signed order did exist or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom