Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Nick Terry]

Hmmmm, I'd like to kick up the Auschwitz 4M, Wiesel, UFOs, witchcraft, ho physical evidence, no documents, and not a signle credible Jewish eyewitness counts.

Also suggest adding a not a single body count and not a single mass grave count.

And ask the obvious question, with all these compelling arguments that the holocaust is a hoax, when do you give up and admit it ?

There's more arguments you should add to your list -

unsealed doors, plate glass window in Auschwtiz hoax gas chamber
window in Majdanek hoax gas chamber
no bodies for hoax Babi Yar massacre
not a single excavated mass grave
not a single grave
not a single credible named victim of Auschwitz gas chamber
hoax report of six million Jews systematically exterminated by Russians in 1906
hoax reports of holocaust of six, seven, eight, million Jews during WW I
Billy Wilder at Buchenwald and his hoax movie
Shower room posing as gas chamber at Dachau
hoax trial of Anton Kandel(?) of Sachsenhausen
precedent hoax trial of Henry Wirz
holohoax education in kindergarten in many states
Primo Levi, Elie Wiesel, Otto Frank in Auschwitz hospital, not exterminated
typhus victims at Belsen the only 'evidence' for the hoax


These are some of my favorites, I'll add more as I think of them

Literally every single one of these arguments is completely unconvincing to anyone who has actually understood the accepted history of the Holocaust, war crimes trials and investigations, or the history of Jews in Europe from 1881-1945, because they are either irrelevant, unproven or display a total ignorance of the actual evidence. They've also been rehashed on this thread numerous times in many cases, and you weren't convincing then.

None of them will help you graduate beyond troll status, Saggy. Not a single one of them.

 

[Saggy]

Literally every single one of these arguments is completely unconvincing to anyone who has actually understood the accepted history of the Holocaust, war crimes trials and investigations, or the history of Jews in Europe from 1881-1945, because they are either irrelevant, unproven or display a total ignorance of the actual evidence. They've also been rehashed on this thread numerous times in many cases, and you weren't convincing then.

None of them will help you graduate beyond troll status, Saggy. Not a single one of them.

None of them will help you graduate beyond troll status, Saggy. Not a single one of them.


Maybe I should have included pictures. Here's one demonstrating what physical evidence looks like, for those holohoax scholars who are completely unfamiliar with it .....

http://www.holohoax101.com/201/battleship.jpg

 

[TSR]

Or maybe you should stop running, and tell us in your own words why the link I gave you doesn't blow your crap out of the water, and sink your "battleship holohoax"

 

[VonKleist]

Or maybe he could stop posting that 1980s refit picture of the USS Missouri.

 

[Border Reiver]

None of them will help you graduate beyond troll status, Saggy. Not a single one of them.


Maybe I should have included pictures. Here's one demonstrating what physical evidence looks like, for those holohoax scholars who are completely unfamiliar with it .....

http://www.holohoax101.com/201/battleship.jpg

Physical evidence looks like a US Battleship?

We've shown the physical evidence, the documentary evidence, and the witness testimony of both the victims and the perpetrators and your response has been "Not good enough."

You're telling us that if we shell you with a broadside from that badboy you'll accept that as evidence?

"FM No. 1 turret!"
"CP3201"
"Degenerate holocaust denier in open,
1 Rd FFE"

 

[Dogzilla]

Hmmmm, I'd like to kick up the Auschwitz 4M, Wiesel, UFOs, witchcraft, ho physical evidence, no documents, and not a signle credible Jewish eyewitness counts.

Also suggest adding a not a single body count and not a single mass grave count.

And ask the obvious question, with all these compelling arguments that the holocaust is a hoax, when do you give up and admit it ?

There's more arguments you should add to your list -

unsealed doors, plate glass window in Auschwtiz hoax gas chamber
window in Majdanek hoax gas chamber
no bodies for hoax Babi Yar massacre
not a single excavated mass grave
not a single grave
not a single credible named victim of Auschwitz gas chamber
hoax report of six million Jews systematically exterminated by Russians in 1906
hoax reports of holocaust of six, seven, eight, million Jews during WW I
Billy Wilder at Buchenwald and his hoax movie
Shower room posing as gas chamber at Dachau
hoax trial of Anton Kandel(?) of Sachsenhausen
precedent hoax trial of Henry Wirz
holohoax education in kindergarten in many states
Primo Levi, Elie Wiesel, Otto Frank in Auschwitz hospital, not exterminated
typhus victims at Belsen the only 'evidence' for the hoax


These are some of my favorites, I'll add more as I think of them

The nearly $3 billion paid to holocaust survivors in Israel alone since 1980 through just the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany and the explosion in holocaust restitution lawsuits starting fifty years after the end of the war should count for something. It's not direct evidence of prevarication but awareness of the many compensation programs available to holocaust survivors helps people understand the motive behind the 'never forget' campaign. The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

 

[Wroclaw]

The nearly $3 billion paid to holocaust survivors in Israel alone since 1980 through just the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany and the explosion in holocaust restitution lawsuits starting fifty years after the end of the war should count for something. It's not direct evidence of prevarication but awareness of the many compensation programs available to holocaust survivors helps people understand the motive behind the 'never forget' campaign. The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

If not one single Jew had been murdered, those claims would still be paid, as they are based on lost property — not on lost life.

 

[TSR]

The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

.
Excuse me: profitability?

So how much more that your family is worth do we have to pay you to kill them all and you still show a profit? Oh, and we get to forcibly relocate you, make you leave everything you have behind, and only feed you when we get around to it.

And you'll have to share a bunk with CM and Saggs, and only be allowed to go to the bathroom once a day.

Your food ration will be below starvation levels, but we will still expect a full day's worth of manual labour from you.

How much for all of that, for you to still show a profit?
.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The nearly $3 billion paid to holocaust survivors in Israel alone since 1980 through just the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany and the explosion in holocaust restitution lawsuits starting fifty years after the end of the war should count for something. It's not direct evidence of prevarication but awareness of the many compensation programs available to holocaust survivors helps people understand the motive behind the 'never forget' campaign. The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

Or it helps people understand that one of the elements of Nazi anti-Jewish policy was property theft - through Aryanization, through organized dispossession and looting, with Nazi "principles" assigning Jewish property to the Reich. Individual theft also occurred, with neighbors of Jews who had been expelled, deported, and/or murdered taking over real and movable property. So the restitution awards are easily "proof" of this aspect of Nazi anti-Jewish actions. The profitability here was profit to the Reich, through its various SS and other administrative bodies (the Rosenberg Task Force, e.g.) with the postwar settlements a small measure of restoring value back to the community from which the property was stolen. Do you know nothing about this?

 

[Clayton Moore]

The nearly $3 billion paid to holocaust survivors in Israel alone since 1980 through just the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany and the explosion in holocaust restitution lawsuits starting fifty years after the end of the war should count for something. It's not direct evidence of prevarication but awareness of the many compensation programs available to holocaust survivors helps people understand the motive behind the 'never forget' campaign. The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

http://www.judymeschel.com/coshorgs.htm

Resources for Children of Holocaust Survivors
Organizations

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,480901,00.html

The Legacy of the Shoah
Children of Holocaust Survivors Plan Suit against Germany

By David Gordon Smith in Berlin

An Israeli charity is making plans to launch a class action suit against Germany on behalf of thousands of children of Holocaust survivors who need psychological treatment. But the German government says it will only make payments to those directly affected.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/7/17/120230.shtml

Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:00 a.m. EDT

Holocaust '2nd Generation' Seeks German Reparations

Thousands of offspring of Nazi Holocaust survivors in Israel are seeking reparations from Germany to pay for psychiatric treatment they say they require as a result of trauma suffered by their parents.

Baruch Mazor, director of a Tel Aviv-based attorneys' fund behind the campaign, said on Tuesday he had taken the unusual step of filing a lawsuit against Berlin in a Tel Aviv court, in a bid to press Germany to negotiate his group's demands.

The lawsuit was seen as the first ever filed by representatives of the so-called "second generation" or those descended from the survivors of the World War Two slayings of six million Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe.

Mazor said his group, representing some of the 400,000 Israelis born to survivors, wants Germany to fund twice weekly therapy sessions for three years for up to 20,000 people he says need counseling because of their parents' wartime trauma.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Or it helps people understand that one of the elements of Nazi anti-Jewish policy was property theft - through Aryanization, through organized dispossession and looting, with Nazi "principles" assigning Jewish property to the Reich. Individual theft also occurred, with neighbors of Jews who had been expelled, deported, and/or murdered taking over real and movable property. So the restitution awards are easily "proof" of this aspect of Nazi anti-Jewish actions. The profitability here was profit to the Reich, through its various SS and other administrative bodies (the Rosenberg Task Force, e.g.) with the postwar settlements a small measure of restoring value back to the community from which the property was stolen. Do you know nothing about this?

So billions of property dollars can be accounted for but the names of the lost can't be produced?

 

[Clayton Moore]

If not one single Jew had been murdered, those claims would still be paid, as they are based on lost property — not on lost life.

As in it's, the Shoah, all about money. TA DA.

 

[Nick Terry]

The nearly $3 billion paid to holocaust survivors in Israel alone since 1980 through just the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany and the explosion in holocaust restitution lawsuits starting fifty years after the end of the war should count for something. It's not direct evidence of prevarication but awareness of the many compensation programs available to holocaust survivors helps people understand the motive behind the 'never forget' campaign. The profitability of the holocaust is the one thing that makes it truly unique.

It's nice to see you've learned your lesson and have given up trying to discuss the actual events, which hasn't exactly worked out too well for you.

 

[LemmyCaution]

So billions of property dollars can be accounted for but the names of the lost can't be produced?

You will have to explain this comment. I really don't know what you mean by "the names of the lost can't be produced."

 

[LemmyCaution]

It's nice to see you've learned your lesson and have given up trying to discuss the actual events, which hasn't exactly worked out too well for you.

After his bold declaration that the unbiased scholar will not demand one specific type of evidence (the way Saggy does, narrowing it down to one witness), he did seem to kind of flag when it came to bellying up with discussion of multiple witnesses, documents, trial records, physical remains, etc. with regard to open-air extermination actions in the East. In fact, his lack of response and complete silence on this topic was quite noticeable. So now it is come confused reasoning that the restitution of stolen property must mean there is bad motive behind . . . well, what, he didn't exactly spell that out either.

Where do they go from here?

Maybe he could work with one member who makes up stories about manipulation of documents but just a couple days ago tried to do a hatchet job of his own on Longerich. This is what they're down to - along with repeating long-answered and empty claims.

 

[TSR]

But the German government says it will only make payments to those directly affected.

.
Kinda blows your "Jews run everything" thesis, doesn't it?
.

 

[TSR]

So billions of property dollars can be accounted for but the names of the lost can't be produced?

.
In many cases, yes they can.

Who lied to you and told you otherwise?
.

 

[Dogzilla]

Quite how you derive that from the series of posts from Wroclaw and myself is a complete mystery.

It's easy. When Person A replies to a post from Person B on JREF, the post from Person B is included in very lightly shaded quote box at the top of Person A's post. It starts with "Originally Posted by Person B" and has a little arrow icon next to it. If you hold your mouse cursor over the little arrow icon, you'll see that it is a link back to the original post by Person B. Click on that little arrow and you'll jump to the original post. If you keep doing that, you'll jump one message back until eventually you are at the beginning of the conversation. It's helpful because sometimes conversations go off on wild tangents or other people join in the fray. It's pretty easy to forget what we were talking about so sometimes we need to go back and figure out why a comment that might seem out of context and a 'complete mystery' is actually a direct response to an earlier comment.

Anyway, if you're going to use the 'UFOs' gambit, you just accumulate Cretinous Repetitive Argument Points:

Auschwitz 4M
Elie Wiesel
UFOs - 1
witchcraft
'no physical evidence'
'no documents'
Allies bombed railway lines
'not a single credible Jewish witness'

I'm sorry if you don't like our cretinous repetitive arguments but if you had a cogent response to them we wouldn't repeat them. If you don't want us to say there are no documents, stop saying there are documents. When asked for a document that unambiguously says "extermination," don't offer one that says "special treatment." If you say that a German saying "ausrotten" in connection with the Jews is irrefutable proof of the intent to exterminate all the Jews, explain why Americans saying "exterminate" in connection with the Japanese is just flowery language. Don't say that the documentary evidence of a planned ethnic cleansing is evidence of an extermination. Don't say that one ambiguous word that appears once in one memo is the smoking gun that proves gas chambers at Auschwitz. Don't quote the opinion of a court that convicted members of the SS of treating Jews inhumanely as evidence that there was a policy of physically annihilating all the Jews. Don't offer a report that says X number of Jews were shot in retaliation for the murder of a German soldier as evidence that all the Jews were going to be killed. And ferchrissakes, stop offering findings of fact from the judgement of a post-war war crimes trial as documentary evidence of anything--show us the evidence that the court relied upon to determine the finding of fact.

 

[Nick Terry]

So billions of property dollars can be accounted for but the names of the lost can't be produced?

This seeming conundrum would resolve itself magically if you could cope with the elementary concept of looking at things country by country instead of thinking in terms of 'Jews' as if they were all the same.

German Jews: more prosperous. 75% forced to emigrate before the killing started, thus survived the war to make many compensation claims to get back their stolen property. Those who could not escape and were deported are all known by name from transport lists. Did not survive to make compensation claims.

Polish Jews: not as prosperous. 90% killed. Entire families wiped out. Many registers of births, marriages and deaths destroyed, few surviving transport lists. Larger community, proportionately fewer names, but more names in absolute terms. Fewer compensation claims than German Jews in absolute terms.

Remarkable, huh?

Do let us know what you will do for your next trick in demonstrating your utter ignorance. Sometimes it's almost touching, like watching a puppy trying to get out of a pond and failing miserably.

 

[Wroclaw]

So billions of property dollars can be accounted for but the names of the lost can't be produced?

Sigh...

The names of some of the lost cannot be produced because, in some cases, not only were the people themselves killed, but so were every single person who ever knew that person.

That's a minority case, however.

In such cases, nevertheless, there is no one claiming lost property. All cases of property claims involve people re-acquiring their own wealth or their descendants doing so.

I can do this with cartoons if it'll help you understand.