Gage and Szamboti to speak at New Jersey Institute of Technology

[Dave Rogers]

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

In your fantasy world, how long after the beginning of the collapse were the corner connections severed, and more importantly, why bother? Although you'd rather die than admit it, I know you don't subscribe to the David Chandler school of outright progressive collapse denial, so you understand that the perimeter alone couldn't arrest collapse once the core was gone; why do you imagine the conspirators chose to advertise their duplicity in the most public way possible by blowing up the most visible part of the structure when it didn't even need to be done?

Dave

 

[JSanderO]

There was no need to cut the exterior for initiation. The core was removed and that pulled the exterior inward causing it to buckle to initiate downward movement.

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

I can see someone engineered this sequence and got some ACE elevators guys over to the spandrel connections.. which extended from below the slab... and then above the slab... as they were 52" tall... and place these explosives and have some sophisticated timing mechanism which was wired? or wireless?

Yea right...

 

[GlennB]

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

Eh? Static load? Are you suggesting they began to collapse even before the falling block hit them? Sounds like an effort of demolition timing that's not merely prodigious but totally pointless.

 

[Gamolon]

There was no need to cut the exterior for initiation. The core was removed and that pulled the exterior inward causing it to buckle to initiate downward movement.

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

How long after the initiation of downward movement were the corners cut and at what floor did the corner cutting start?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Eh? Static load? Are you suggesting they began to collapse even before the falling block hit them? Sounds like an effort of demolition timing that's not merely prodigious but totally pointless.

He needs to say that, because it was pointed out a little while back that the perimeter columns didn't generate a jolt yet weren't destroyed by explosives. Once Tony needed to see explosives to support his theory, suddenly there they were.

Dave

 

[beachnut]

There was no need to cut the exterior for initiation. The core was removed and that pulled the exterior inward causing it to buckle to initiate downward movement.

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

all with silent explosives and done by invisible people who murder people for ???

What a load of BS

 

[jaydeehess]

There was no need to cut the exterior for initiation. The core was removed and that pulled the exterior inward causing it to buckle to initiate downward movement.

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.

So what was the point of the image Fonebone posted then? rhetorical question for you, I expect him to answer.

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I'll give you a chance to show everyone your stuff. Where are your calculations that show the corner "expulsions" could only be explosive charges? This is your claim, prove it!

WTC1 FIREBALL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnuFACYc-Q4

Note that the fireball that initiated the collapse cover four stories and neutralized exterior columns equally on all four faces of the north tower as tony states in post #544http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11002153#post11002153



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/363814d076c6bf2b51.gif[/qimg]

However Fonebone himself references your post. So you can reconcile what you say now with what you said in that post. Perhaps syntax was an issue for you.

The answer that you won't give is that the perimeter columns were severed at their corners by charges and core columns were removed for a significant number of stories to start the collapse and get it going. There is no other way to cause the lower section to have its resistance reduced enough so that it couldn't support the static load except for a serious jolt, and we know that did not happen.

The only choice you have left is charges and it is clear you can't go there in front of people.

I look at the Chandler narrated video and still see no cutting of the corner columns. I see ejections of dust and debris from the windows on either side of the corner but no evidence that at those moments the column itself is coming apart. Perhaps you could isolate a frame of video that shows what you say we should all be able to see.

 

[jaydeehess]

Eh? Static load? Are you suggesting they began to collapse even before the falling block hit them? Sounds like an effort of demolition timing that's not merely prodigious but totally pointless.

Tony seems to have a problem expressing himself properly. Allow me to try and translate:

He is trying to say that the structure was supporting the static load up until collapse initiation. He is saying that they only way to overcome the ability of the structure to carry that, pre-collapse, static load, would be to use explosives. (the silent, thermite souped up explosives)

At least that is what I think he is saying.

 

[jaydeehess]

,,, and of course, the sparkling hot material coming from one corner of one tower several minutes before collapse initiation is supposedly indicative of thermite souped up explosive use on that corner column, which means that its also being used on core columns..... or something like that.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

In your fantasy world, how long after the beginning of the collapse were the corner connections severed, and more importantly, why bother? Although you'd rather die than admit it, I know you don't subscribe to the David Chandler school of outright progressive collapse denial, so you understand that the perimeter alone couldn't arrest collapse once the core was gone; why do you imagine the conspirators chose to advertise their duplicity in the most public way possible by blowing up the most visible part of the structure when it didn't even need to be done?

Dave

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories. If orthogonal support of the exterior walls had remained early there would have been much more resistance and may have caused a glitch with the demolition. The conspirators did not really have a choice.

They did eight stories of WTC 7 and let it go into free fall to ensure it all went down. They obviously were not taking chances.

However, it doesn't matter what they thought, only the actual evidence matters and there is evidence that the corners of the North Tower were cut by charges early in the collapse.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

I can see someone engineered this sequence and got some ACE elevators guys over to the spandrel connections.. which extended from below the slab... and then above the slab... as they were 52" tall... and place these explosives and have some sophisticated timing mechanism which was wired? or wireless?

Yea right...

It also could have been done when the new security system was installed in the towers. I would think the elevator upgrade cover was only used for the core.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

all done with explosives by people working under cover who murder people for oil.

What an interesting avenue for investigation.

The above is what you would be saying if you were being honest with yourself and others.

 

[JSanderO]

It also could have been done when the new security system was installed in the towers. I would think the elevator upgrade cover was only used for the core.

The core up at the collapse zone in 1wtc and something like 20+ columns which were not inside or adjacent to elevator shafts. It would be pretty hard to place and wires those... or impossible and not have any notice. Or a single survivor including those who were not in the towers but worked in those floors reporting work done these columns.

 

[DGM]

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories. If orthogonal support of the exterior walls had remained early there would have been much more resistance and may have caused a glitch with the demolition. The conspirators did not really have a choice.
They did eight stories of WTC 7 and let it go into free fall to ensure it all went down. They obviously were not taking chances.
However, it doesn't matter what they thought, only the actual evidence matters and there is evidence that the corners of the North Tower were cut by charges early in the collapse.

All I can say is WOW. I'll cut him some slack, it is Friday and happy hour has started............

 

[GlennB]

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories.

Except ... many of those 20 stories show the very same evidence of 'explosions' that you claimed earlier yet now deny.

My sincere advice - get your story straight in advance, otherwise you end up improvising crap as you go along and looking silly.

 

[Dave Rogers]

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories.

No, you misunderstand. In your fantasy, at what point did they start to sever the corners? We can see that no ejecta occurred until a significant time after the top block began to descend; how long after the beginning of the descent did the corner charges begin to fire?

Dave

 

[Stamuel]

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories. If orthogonal support of the exterior walls had remained early there would have been much more resistance and may have caused a glitch with the demolition. The conspirators did not really have a choice.
[...]

Do you (or does anyone else) know how much orthogonal support was provided by the corners? The exterior columns were connected to the floors all the way around the building, and my guess is those connections provided the overwhelming majority of orthogonal support. Would cutting just the corners actually make that much difference?

 

[jaydeehess]

It is a matter of extent. The perimeter did need to have its corners cut early on. I would venture to say probably at least the first 20 stories. If orthogonal support of the exterior walls had remained early there would have been much more resistance and may have caused a glitch with the demolition. The conspirators did not really have a choice.

However, it doesn't matter what they thought, only the actual evidence matters and there is evidence that the corners of the North Tower were cut by charges early in the collapse.

No, there is your own opinion on what the videos show, which many others simply don't agree is actually true. Have you a frame of video that you can isolate that demonstrates that the corner columns were severed at any time during the collapse? No!
There is your own opinion that although your supposed core cutting got the upper section moving that it would not be enough to allow the collapse to continue.

They did eight stories of WTC 7 and let it go into free fall to ensure it all went down. They obviously were not taking chances.

Chances? What chances, that the building comes down completely? You and your compatriots have never come up with a motive for WTC 7 that makes even an iota of sense.
Neither is there a motive to absolutely ensure that the towers come down completely. Hell if the upper section dozen or so storeys had come down then collapse arrested at say the 75th floor, the surrounding WTC buildings would still have suffered huge damage, still would have lost firefighters, police and dozens at least of civilians on the ground AND still everyone on the planes. In fact the clean up and recovery would have taken much longer with the hulking 75 storeys a constant reminder on the horizon for weeks or months.

Taking these structures to ground did little to nothing to promote anything more than would have been gained simply by ramming planes into buildings and killing several dozen people.

 

[jaydeehess]

No, you misunderstand. In your fantasy, at what point did they start to sever the corners? We can see that no ejecta occurred until a significant time after the top block began to descend; how long after the beginning of the descent did the corner charges begin to fire?

Dave

The only ejecta we can see in any video is coming through window openings. TSz says he can see explosives cutting columns yet at all times that one can see columns, they are intact. Are they being severed behind the debris/dust cloud that slightly leads the perimeter destruction?. that debris/dust is gaining velocity as fast as gravity allows(for heavy metal structure that is essentially g).

These spooks sure timed it well. Cut core, upper section begins falling and pushing out ejecta causing debris and dust to fall outside the towers and hide the severing of the perimeter columns for the first ~20 storeys. They did not bank on those engineers that have X-ray vision seeing through their machinations.

 

[DGM]

No, there is your own opinion on what the videos show, which many others simply don't agree is actually true. Have you a frame of video that you can isolate that demonstrates that the corner columns were severed at any time during the collapse? No!
There is your own opinion that although your supposed core cutting got the upper section moving that it would not be enough to allow the collapse to continue.



Chances? What chances, that the building comes down completely? You and your compatriots have never come up with a motive for WTC 7 that makes even an iota of sense.
Neither is there a motive to absolutely ensure that the towers come down completely. Hell if the upper section dozen or so storeys had come down then collapse arrested at say the 75th floor, the surrounding WTC buildings would still have suffered huge damage, still would have lost firefighters, police and dozens at least of civilians on the ground AND still everyone on the planes. In fact the clean up and recovery would have taken much longer with the hulking 75 storeys a constant reminder on the horizon for weeks or months.

Taking these structures to ground did little to nothing to promote anything more than would have been gained simply by ramming planes into buildings and killing several dozen people.

I seriously doubt the toll would be any different.

There's no reason the effect would have been less if they stayed standing. The significance of WTC7 is a fantasy, they even claim no one knew about it.