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Gage and Farrakhan

Isn't the NoI known for it's militant ideals, Black Supremecy and anti-semitism? So, instead of appealing to the ASCE or other relevant professionals (lol like he could), he turns to a group, of which, some may have praised the "martyrdom" of their muslim brothers and hold those 19 hijackers in high regards. So he's going to present to these people that it was all a sham...the blowback from this could be epic.

/grabs popcorn
 
This'll make great footage for Loose change: Unlimited Yapping Edition
 
Scott Sommers said:
This is interesting to be because of my perception that 9/11 Truth is increasingly a struggle involving different kinds of American Christians. The idea from Myriad that 9/11 Truth is an aesthetic statement also lends itself to the understanding that it has limited cross-cultural appeal.

I think the idea of 9/11 Truth in Europe refers to a series of lectures that DRG did there in 2009. You can find the list of his appearances on the right hand side of his blog. There wasn't even a whisper of demonstration there during the 10th anniversary, so it appears that the masses attending his talks were not motivated to do much of anything after he left the room. I suspect this has to do with the points raised by Oystein.
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This may not be quite the correct thread, but I just want to quickly dump this bit of trivia that I just learned from I am currently talking with a buddy in Denmark, who knows Niels Harrit. He believes that Harrit is politically pretty leftist, and that most of the Danish truth movement leans heavily left.
Harrit has received a cultural price that is awarded by the Danish communist party:
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelsted-Kirk-Scherfig-Prisen
(Google Translation)

In that context, I just remembered that a while ago I was in contact with Jochen Scholz, a former lieutenant colonel of the German Air Force and NATO staff officer in some political capacity, who is now a consultant for the socialistic party "Die Linke" (which is more or less the successor of the former East German state party SED). He had given an interview in which he suggested (but didn't outright claim) that the US air defense's failure to intercept the hijacked planes could only be explained by malicious intent, and that the US government used 9/11 for geopoloitical gains. I had written to him to clarify what he said about the air defense procedures, and in that exchange, he alerted me to another talk he gave where he suspected that Zelikow was installed at the 9/11 Commission with the intent to retroactively "shape" how history is written (i.e. to deceive).

So there you have anecdotal evidence that 9/11 Twoof enjoys some traction among the European far left.
 
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Oystein said:
This may not be quite the correct thread, but I just want to quickly dump this bit of trivia that I just learned from I am currently talking with a buddy in Denmark, who knows Niels Harrit. He believes that Harrit is politically pretty leftist, and that most of the Danish truth movement leans heavily left.
Harrit has received a cultural price that is awarded by the Danish communist party:
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelsted-Kirk-Scherfig-Prisen
(Google Translation)

In that context, I just remembered that a while ago I was in contact with Jochen Scholz, a former lieutenant colonel of the German Air Force and NATO staff officer in some political capacity, who is now a consultant for the socialistic party "Die Linke" (which is more or less the successor of the former East German state party SED). He had given an interview in which he suggested (but didn't outright claim) that the US air defense's failure to intercept the hijacked planes could only be explained by malicious intent, and that the US government used 9/11 for geopoloitical gains. I had written to him to clarify what he said about the air defense procedures, and in that exchange, he alerted me to another talk he gave where he suspected that Zelikow was installed at the 9/11 Commission with the intent to retroactively "shape" how history is written (i.e. to deceive).

So there you have anecdotal evidence that 9/11 Twoof enjoys some traction among the European far left.
Click to expand...

This is the sort of thing that raised my concern about 9/11 and other conspiracy theories. Everyone laughs at Jim Fetzer, and even Richard Gage is being reduced to recruiting astrologers as his local area leaders for AE911T. But these guys have started a 'rumour' - an Internet runour as Chomsky put it - that something problematic happened on 9/11.

Back in 2009, a Truth nutter was posting on one of the forums that I occasionally use. Apparently he'd been posting there every September for years, but I hadn't noticed. I posted links of Truthers laughing and joking about victims and their families. One of the local members participating in the thread replied that previously, he had thought there must be something to all these rumours, even if there was no real MIHOP, but after watching Dylan Avery interviewed by Jack Blood, he was just disgusted with the whole idea.

All of this reminds me of the thread describing how David Ray Griffin went to Japan to talk with their Socialist Party. DRG and his nutty ideas were fine with them as political firepower until they discovered that right-wing nationalists were also fawning over him. The hard-core Leftists you talk about would be the kind of Europeans much less enamored with Obama than they are committed to a political opposition to the USA. The truth of these statements isn't what's important. But once they find out what 9/11 Truth really means in the minds of its activists, they won't tolerate it.
 
I'd say hearing that Islamic extremists are getting mixed up with Scientology is more disturbing than anything else. :eye-poppi
 
It's not really correct to call the NoI Muslim. Sure, they have mosques, eschew pork and alcohol and follow (more or less) the Five Pillars. But that's about it. Their prayers and rituals are different, they've made the Ramadan fast and the Hajj pilgrimage optional and claim their founder as the messiah. All Islamic groups have repudiated them.
Plus NoI theology is quite different from Islam and actually nearer to Scientology in spirit; they believe that the Black race was the original and superior race and all other races came out of genetic tampering by a super-evil mad scientist. They also believe in flying saucers, that the Earth is 76 trillion years old and that Adam & Eve and all the other events recounted in the Koran/OT came millions of years after humans came about. So accommodating Scientology won't be any big stretch for them.*
In fact, now that their funding from Gaddaffi has suddenly dried up, they'll be on the hunt for wealthy investors. Look out for Tom Cruise shaking hands with Farrakhan.

*As for 9/11 Tutherism, they already believe so much obviously crazy stuff that it'll be a shoo-in.
 
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Well, obviously, it depends on what your definition of 'Muslim' is. But really, they bear the same relationship to Islam as Mormonism does to Christianity, or Christianity to Judaism. That is, they share some tenets but otherwise differ wildly.
This isn't the thread to discuss what makes one religion separate from another, of course.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
This'll make great footage for Loose change: Unlimited Yapping Edition
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Farrakkhan's good for that. He's like the black militant Fidel Castro. I remember in the Million Man March speech, he started going into numerology; it was like whoa.

Farrakkhan said:
There, in the middle of this mall is the Washington Monument, 555 feet high. But if we put a one in front of that 555 feet, we get 1555, the year that our first fathers landed on the shores of Jamestown, Virginia as slaves.

In the background is the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorial, each one of these monuments is 19 feet high.

Abraham Lincoln, the sixteenth president. Thomas Jefferson, the third president, and 16 and three make 19 again. What is so deep about this number 19? Why are we standing on the Capitol steps today? That number 19 -- when you have a nine you have a womb that is pregnant. And when you have a one standing by the nine, it means that there's something secret that has to be unfolded.

...

Now, we're almost finished. I want to take one last look at the word atonement.

The first four letters of the word form the foundation; "a-t-o-n". . . "a-ton", "a-ton". Since this obelisk in front of us is representative of Egypt. In the 18th dynasty, a Pharaoh named Akhenaton, was the first man of this history period to destroy the pantheon of many gods and bring the people to the worship of one god. And that one god was symboled by a sun disk with 19 rays coming out of that sun with hands holding the Egyptian Ankh - the cross of life. A-ton. The name for the one god in ancient Egypt. A- ton, the one god. 19 rays. Look at your scripture.

A woman, remember the nine, means somebody pregnant, with an idea. But, in this case, its a woman pregnant with a male child destined to rule the nations with a rod of iron. God is standing over her womb, and this child will be like the day sun, and he will say "I am the light of the world." Hands coming out of that sun, come unto me all ye that are heavy laden. I'm gonna give you rest, but I'm gonna give you life, because I am the resurrection and the life and if you believe in me, though you are dead, yet shall you live again.

You're dead, Black man. But if you believe in the god who created this sun of truth and of light with 19 rays, meaning he's pregnant with God's spirit, God's life, God's wisdom. Abraham Lincoln's statue, 19 feet high, 19 feet wide. Jefferson, 19 feet high, 16 (OFF-MIKE) and the third president, 19. Standing on the steps of the Capitol, in the light of the sun. Offering life to a people who are dead.
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sophia8 said:
Well, obviously, it depends on what your definition of 'Muslim' is. But really, they bear the same relationship to Islam as Mormonism does to Christianity, or Christianity to Judaism. That is, they share some tenets but otherwise differ wildly.
This isn't the thread to discuss what makes one religion separate from another, of course.
Click to expand...

Most Christians I know never read the Bible (the Old Testament) and rarely go to church, but they call themselves Christians anyway.

If the people of NoI believe in Allah, see Muhammad as their prophet and follow the Q'ran, then they are Muslims.
 
Fallout from the event includes the resignation of one or more volunteers:

In fact, it is because of the decision to go to this event that I quit as a volunteer team leader after 2.5 years of working at ae911truth. I was not the only one to leave because of this either, however I will not say who else left - that is for themselves to say.
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Richard wants to think this is the event that will catapault the new investigation. I have not heard anything more ridiculous and contrary to the obvious, and yes I told him exactly that many times before leaving.
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I suspect Richard is more interested in whether this will catapault (sic) more donations into the coffers.

I am nothing more than a hard worker, I will probably be better without AE becuase Im tired of *(feeling like I am) babysitting Richard.
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IIRC this guy is the same one who bankrolled the 9-11 Truth comic book by Rick Veitch.
 
Brainster said:
...
IIRC this guy is the same one who bankrolled the 9-11 Truth comic book by Rick Veitch.
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Do you have any idea what the real name of this guy Nor Cal Truth is? 2.5 years on the team, describes himself as a hard-working researcher, knows numerically how the board voted... Surely his name shows up on some of the AE documents?
 
Oystein said:
This may not be quite the correct thread, but I just want to quickly dump this bit of trivia that I just learned from I am currently talking with a buddy in Denmark, who knows Niels Harrit. He believes that Harrit is politically pretty leftist, and that most of the Danish truth movement leans heavily left.
Click to expand...
Given that most of the "profiles" in the Danish truth community are in the art community, that's hardly a major surprise. There's a couple of actors (one somewhat notorious for being the prügelknabe of those chasing Communist infiltrations of Danish media), an aging rock star (was big in the 70's, haven't done much since then), and a couple of movie directors.

Curiously, the architects and engineers are few and far between. Go figure.
 
KDLarsen said:
...prügelknabe...
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Cute :p I love it, but doubt that many here understand what that word means :D


("Prügelknabe" = "flogging boy" - describes the concept that one individual out of a group of alleged wrong-doers is routinely singled out for punishment and abuse and receives more than his fair share of it)



ETA: For those of you who don't know: Harrit is a fairly accomplished sax player, that's why he is associated with the arts establishment in Denmark.
 
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Scott Sommers said:
I think the idea of 9/11 Truth in Europe refers to a series of lectures that DRG did there in 2009. You can find the list of his appearances on the right hand side of his blog. There wasn't even a whisper of demonstration there during the 10th anniversary, so it appears that the masses attending his talks were not motivated to do much of anything after he left the room. I suspect this has to do with the points raised by Oystein.
Click to expand...

Interesting that DRG made you buy his book at the Stockholm one (100 SEK ≈ $15)
http://davidraygriffin.com/calendar/may-11-2009-stockholm/
I wasn't aware he is charging admission but I guess the man needs to make a living.

He seems to have found a very receptive audience in Sweden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed4Bne11Uww

The group that hosted him claims to promote understanding between Europe and the "Arab world."
http://alhambra.se/order/info.htm
 
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RCory said:
Interesting that DRG made you buy his book at the Stockholm one (100 SEK ≈ $15)
http://davidraygriffin.com/calendar/may-11-2009-stockholm/
I wasn't aware he is charging admission but I guess the man needs to make a living.

He seems to have found a very receptive audience in Sweden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed4Bne11Uww

The group that hosted him claims to promote understanding between Europe and the "Arab world."
http://alhambra.se/order/info.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks for the translations. Yes, this is very interesting to see that how important it is for him to sell books there.
 
Oystein said:
Do you have any idea what the real name of this guy Nor Cal Truth is? 2.5 years on the team, describes himself as a hard-working researcher, knows numerically how the board voted... Surely his name shows up on some of the AE documents?
Click to expand...

Nor Cal Truth is Brian Romanoff, according to Adam Syed.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21901

On that page, Syed also says other members have left AE911T over this:

I should probably leave it up to the other individuals who resigned to name themselves, though I've been made aware of who they are. Let's put it this way: at least two very well known members of the CD wing of the movement have left AE over this, resulting in an unprecedented schism between Richard/Kevin and other known demolitions advocates.
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Woot! "Splitters!"

:pythonfoot:

Also some interesting comments from former member of AE911T, "SanderO" regarding why he left/was kicked out a while ago. (ETA: This might even deserve a new thread.)
 
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Orphia Nay said:
...Also some interesting comments from former member of AE911T, "SanderO" regarding why he left/was kicked out a while ago. (ETA: This might even deserve a new thread.)
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Interesting link there Orphia.

SanderO is a regular on the 911Forum and he shows sound reasoning skills in most of his posts.
 
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