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Fyziks 101

Turbofan said:
LMAO!
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Newtons Bit said:
I think it's pretty obvious that Turbofan is just a troll who is trying to waste peoples time now. Welcome to ignore!
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Stellafane said:
Yes, I am certain you are correct. Thus the perfect way to end this thread is to just let TF make one final comment, and then ignore it forever. He'll hate that!

And when he attempts to disrupt other threads (which he surely will, because this isn't about debate, it's about calling attention to himself) we can all just ignore him there as well. He will really, really hate that!!

And pretty soon, he'll just go away because no one will play. And then we'll see this is the perfect way to treat all trolls, that if they just get ignored (not treated nicely or meanly, just ignored) they won't come here any more because trolling is about attention and nothing else.

So what do you say -- let's make TF a test case, and ignore every single troll posting he makes. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but perhaps once and for all we'll have an effective way of getting rid of trolls with no wasted effort. And who knows? Miracle of miracles, perhaps TF will eventually grow so starved for attention, he'll actually try posting -- dare I say it? -- something meaningful!!
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SezMe said:
Although (s)he doesn't seem to having much luck, I want to support Stellafane's call to completely ignore Turbofan but my reason, I must confess, is a bit more personal.

As I watch some of the videos one more time to rebut TF's idiocy, I can clearly see that he has no interest in the facts of the matter. But then the video ends and I stare at the screen thinking I just watched thousands of people die. Seven years on and it still hurts.

That these scenes get replayed for TF's benefit makes it worse. To revisit the scene of horror to relearn some important lessons is one thing but to do so in the service of stubborn, repugnant ignorance is another.

Yeah, sure, I could avoid the videos or even the thread. And I probably will do just that as time goes on. But for now, I join Stellafane's call to starve this ignorant person like we would a cancerous lump. And I choose the analogy for its accuracy.
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Of course you are Turbo, goodbye.
 
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Yup, all of your faceless "experts" can post in every thread at JREF, but
that's OK.

When a member of PFT replies in multiple threads its a problem.

Feel free to ignore me, I wont cry.

Feel free to keep ignoring the original post as well. It shows your level
of expertise.
 
Turbofan said:
As for this compression theory you (R. Mackey) are trying to spin; that's
not how a fluid or gas reacts in an open environment. The entire volume
would need to reach the same pressure before the windows blow out.

Differential pressure will equalize in an open environment. Since you have
a massive airplane hole on at least one side of the building, you will have
to overcome outside ambient pressure throughout most of NYC before
one floor reaches enough pressure to blow out a window.

Afterall, you guys keep saying the towers were 90% air :rolleyes:

Nice try but, Mr. Mackey wants us to believe a pocket of air can travel
across a room in a linear fashion just like a bullet! :rolleyes:
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I see someone isn't familiar with transient behavior of systems.
 
Turbofan said:
Yup, all of your faceless "experts" can post in every thread at JREF, but
that's OK.

When a member of PFT replies in multiple threads its a problem.

Feel free to ignore me, I wont cry.

Feel free to keep ignoring the original post as well. It shows your level
of expertise.
Click to expand...

So why post here?
 
johnny karate said:
Your display of intellectual dishonesty and cowardice in this post is staggering.

You didn't even begin to address my question, and ignored the parts of it you found inconvenient.

Here it is again. Please pay special attention to the parts I've bolded:

If the collapse of the towers was so odd and in such violation of the laws of physics that a layperson such as yourself can perceive these oddities and violations merely by looking at photos of the collapse, then why hasn't any of this been discerned and/or revealed by a single MSM outlet, law enforcement agency, or investigative body on the planet?

Come on, Turbofan. Explain what special knowledge or insight you have that no single person in any of the above mentioned organizations seems to have. Why hasn't any investigative journalist or other professional investigator anywhere on the planet able to figure out what you did?
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Bump for Turbofan.
 
Travis said:
All this talk of 15 floors vs 95 floors needs to stop because it is just out right wrong. It wasn't 15 vs 95, it was 15 floors vs 1 floor, the floor that was being impacted into by the above floors. Of course in 15 vs 1 the 15 win and the 1 is crushed and now it is 16 floors vs 1 floor and again the 1 floor will lose and it will be 17 vs 1 and so on.

Continuing to pretend the floors below the floor being crushed contribute in any way to the structural integrity of the floor being crushed is either just outright stupid or disingenuous.
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So let me follow your example to its conclusion. It starts of as 15 floors vs 1 floor. Then it moves to 16 floors vs. 1 floor. Then it is 17 floors vs. 1 floor. So eventually it will be, say, 107 floors vs. 1 floor...108 floors vs. 1 floor...109 floors vs 1 floor...then were are back to 110 floors. So in your scenario when the "collapse" is over, we are back to 110 floors. Can you show me pictures of these 110 floors when the collapse is over?
 
tanabear said:
So let me follow your example to its conclusion. It starts of as 15 floors vs 1 floor. Then it moves to 16 floors vs. 1 floor. Then it is 17 floors vs. 1 floor. So eventually it will be, say, 107 floors vs. 1 floor...108 floors vs. 1 floor...109 floors vs 1 floor...then were are back to 110 floors. So in your scenario when the "collapse" is over, we are back to 110 floors. Can you show me pictures of these 110 floors when the collapse is over?
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As you are a Truther, I understand that everything has to be explained to you in excruciating detail and that you love to argue semantics in order to bog down a discussion, but come on, you're just being ridiculous.

Clearly, Travis wasn't implying that the floors somehow magically retain their original structure as the building collapsed. He was referring to the mass of each floor as the collapse progressed.
 
Another BUMP for Turbofan...

Turbofan said:
-You got it dude. Just like the squibs show in the videos.
-The Space Shuttle produces squibs?
-You get compression? Wow. Do you get squibs too?
-Compression and squibs are two different things.
-I suggest you watch the videos and NOTICE the SQUIB(S) appearing within
the FIRST SECOND.
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Please post your definition of the word "squib" as used in the examples above, and cite your source.
 
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Jonnyclueless said:
And what was your real name again?

And what are the names of your experts at L3 again?
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It seems his real name is Tino and he works at an auto body shop outside of Toronto.


And since i never got an answer to my question:
Minadin said:
The reason that I ask is because depending on the answer, I might have just won, if it means what I think it might . . .

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/12532488e4c0b3a80a.gif

I'm just not sure which of the 2 possibilities in blue is where my bingo mark should be placed. Please help.
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I'm going to assume that by "GL" he meant "Government Loyalist, and declare 'Bingo!' He's actually used enough poor, tired conspiracy theorist tactics to fill out the Bingo card I made for Orphia a couple years back. I'll have to email her.
 
Minadin said:
It seems his real name is Tino and he works at an auto body shop outside of Toronto.


And since i never got an answer to my question:


I'm going to assume that by "GL" he meant "Government Loyalist, and declare 'Bingo!' He's actually used enough poor, tired conspiracy theorist tactics to fill out the Bingo card I made for Orphia a couple years back. I'll have to email her.
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this is the first time ive seen the card, im thinking of making some sort of program to randomize the squares on it (for next time :) )
 
Minadin said:
It seems his real name is Tino and he works at an auto body shop outside of Toronto.


And since i never got an answer to my question:


I'm going to assume that by "GL" he meant "Government Loyalist, and declare 'Bingo!' He's actually used enough poor, tired conspiracy theorist tactics to fill out the Bingo card I made for Orphia a couple years back. I'll have to email her.
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You're partly right. My first name is Tino (not full name).

I don't work at a shop outside of Toronto. That is my part time hobby.

15 floors?

I still don't see the entire 15 floor section as the tower descends?

I still don't see anyone's explanation about the core columns?

When you make up your theory please include the outer perimeter columns
and inner core columns which hold the floors in place.

The floors did not pancake.

In the middle of the tower is a MASSIVE network of steel.

That MASSIVE network of still exists in the top section above the impact
zone, and the lower section below the impact zone.

Those columns we connected from top to bottom with the exception of a
few core and perimeter columns.

Once again, look at these two photos. Then explain where the core went?

http://www.procision-auto.com/Tino/wtc_stop1.jpg

http://www.procision-auto.com/Tino/wtc_stop6.jpg

Notice the red line doesn't move at this point. Where is the top section?
What happened to it?

Someone PLEASE show me a section of 15 floors going all the way down? :rolleyes:
 
Turbofan said:
As for this compression theory you (R. Mackey) are trying to spin; that's not how a fluid or gas reacts in an open environment. The entire volume would need to reach the same pressure before the windows blow out.
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Nope.

For the third time, it isn't compression. At least not at this stage. It is dynamic pressure. Dynamic pressure means there is no pressurization, per se, but instead it is all based on the fluid's inertia. Air, like everything else, has inertia.

Gas doesn't experience much actual compression until (a) velocities approach the speed of sound, (b) there is a rigid container that supports static pressure, or (c) there is a partial container that puts fluid into a blocked flow condition. Early in the collapse, none of these are present. Very late in the collapse, (a) and (c) are possible, after the floors are failing at a rate of tens per second and the air is getting crowded out through the windows.

Windows require approximately 1 PSI of pressure to break. This can be either static or dynamic pressure. For dynamic pressure, this equates to a fluid velocity of about 100 meters per second, well before air gets truly compressible. However, in the collapses, there are also a lot of heavy pieces of things flying around, as well as building flexure, so some windows are breaking anyway even with lower fluid speeds. Air by itself is marginal in the early stages of collapse -- Not impossible, but far from guaranteed to break all the windows.

Turbofan said:
Differential pressure will equalize in an open environment. Since you have
a massive airplane hole on at least one side of the building, you will have
to overcome outside ambient pressure throughout most of NYC before
one floor reaches enough pressure to blow out a window.
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Again, no. Dynamic pressure. Not static pressure. And there is no "overcoming outside ambient pressure," since the static pressure is the same inside and out...

Turbofan said:
Afterall, you guys keep saying the towers were 90% air :rolleyes:
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They were.

Turbofan said:
Nice try but, Mr. Mackey wants us to believe a pocket of air can travel
across a room in a linear fashion just like a bullet! :rolleyes:
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It can. In a wide open area, a jet of air will dissipate through vortex rollup at the boundary layer. However, it takes some distance -- the dissipation distance is approximately equal to four times the jet diameter for a wide variety of conditions.

There are also other ways to do it. One such is a vortex ring. This toy, for instance, can blow a focused puff of air, in the form of a vortex ring, for about 30 feet, even outdoors. I have one.

You're not likely to learn anything if you keep accusing your betters of "spin." I suggest you open your mind, and just listen for a while.

ETA: defaultdotxbe beat me to the toy recommendation. A tip of the sombrero is in order.
 
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tanabear said:
So let me follow your example to its conclusion. It starts of as 15 floors vs 1 floor. Then it moves to 16 floors vs. 1 floor. Then it is 17 floors vs. 1 floor. So eventually it will be, say, 107 floors vs. 1 floor...108 floors vs. 1 floor...109 floors vs 1 floor...then were are back to 110 floors. So in your scenario when the "collapse" is over, we are back to 110 floors. Can you show me pictures of these 110 floors when the collapse is over?
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see.jpg

This is what you get as the last floor hits at 51 m/s, and over 100 tons of TNT kinetic energy destroy a building (why it looks like 100 1000 pound bombs hit). Gravity, it kills.
 
tanabear said:
So let me follow your example to its conclusion. It starts of as 15 floors vs 1 floor. Then it moves to 16 floors vs. 1 floor. Then it is 17 floors vs. 1 floor. So eventually it will be, say, 107 floors vs. 1 floor...108 floors vs. 1 floor...109 floors vs 1 floor...then were are back to 110 floors. So in your scenario when the "collapse" is over, we are back to 110 floors. Can you show me pictures of these 110 floors when the collapse is over?
Click to expand...

You've already seen the pictures. That's what a building without any of the space between the parts looks like. Surely you do not think that the WTC buildings were solid do you? Oh wait, you probably do. Most people who seem to think that the bottom portion of the building should stop the top portion only think in terms of solid objects instead of a large series of small parts.
 
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