From Rapture Ready

[Nogbad]

Yes, I suppose my Catholic schooling shows through. I didn't let the buggers take my virginity, though.


M.

Didn't you feel a bit left out?

 

[six7s]

I'm going to say the same about Christian Dude and his insufferable spouse, Kathy as I have about DOC:

Put them on ignore. They are not here to debate or discuss. They are here to evangelize. Stop wasting your time with them and the other religious rejects who infest this forum.



The notion of "God" is unworthy.

Superb vid! Thanks Mark

I think it would be a good idea to incorporate Brother Sam's 9-point guide into the Membership Agreement

 

[six7s]

Well I can't answer for you but for myself I worship God for making a way for me to be forgiven of my sins through Christ

One of the very few 'good things' about your god is he's obedient; tell him to piss off for all eternity, and he will

Jesus deserves my praise

So... your praise is worth - in practical terms - less than nothing...

OK...

Now what?

 

[Moochie]

Didn't you feel a bit left out?

Absolutely, but I found solace in buggering some nearby Baptists.


M.

 

[Nogbad]

Absolutely, but I found solace in buggering some nearby Baptists.


M.

What goes around comes around....errr so to speak.

 

[six7s]

Absolutely, but I found solace in buggering some nearby Baptists.


M.

You widen the circle of your friends by invoking the holey spirit?

 

[Alareth]

My friends and I used to "create" new words using a list of latin prefixes, roots and suffixes. It was kinda fun, and since each component has a definition, the words actually meant something.

My personal favorite may apply here:

Hyperstomatophasorhea

It roughly translates as, "Excessive flow of speech from the mouth"

 

[hamelekim]

I don't consider those posters on RR to be true Christians. If you look at their posting rules they are essentially fascists. Right wing fascists who won't tolerate any dissenting viewpoints, even from fellow Christians.

They are locked into their pro military fascists view of Christianity. It's really rather disturbing.

I may believe in the Rapture and the book of revelations, but I do not agree with silencing differing opinions on religion, and frankly the Bible says that we should share our views with fellow Christians and discuss them, to see if they match with what the scripture really says.

Any group of people, like RR, that won't allow pacifist ideas to be posted, or anything to do with "socialist" ideas is extremely dangerous, and anti-Biblical.

 

[hamelekim]

Well I can't answer for you but for myself I worship God for making a way for me to be forgiven of my sins through Christ. He has reconciled me back to him and Jesus deserves my praise. I am a sinner who needs God to forgive me, that's all I know. It's not about religion, it's about getting Jesus right! Now I am prepared for death or rapture ready which ever comes first.

I will preface my comment with the fact that I am a Christian who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

God created existence knowing that 1/3 of the Angels would fall, that Satan would tempt Eve and that humanity would fall. He chose to make that sin apply to all future generations of human beings rather than just Adam and Eve.

From our human perspective that seems rather unfair, but then our morals have been "corrupted by sin and Satan". If that is the case and we are corrupted and do not have all the information we cannot say that God is wrong and be correct. Even if we say God is wrong how come God created us to be able to say that he is wrong in the first place?

Why would he allow humans to come up with their own moral standards that are altered from those of God, that we would see his actions as unfair.

We honestly don't have enough information to decide that God is evil or wrong in his decisions. One day when we finally have all the information it is likely that we will look upon everything and say that it was the right decision and God was in the right.

 

[Seren_]

We honestly don't have enough information to decide that God is evil or wrong in his decisions. One day when we finally have all the information it is likely that we will look upon everything and say that it was the right decision and God was in the right.

I only quote that part because this is an argument that I see often, and I got a question related to it.

Apparently we are not able to judge God or His actions. And after all, why not ? I can (somehow) understand that argument.

But on the other hand, if we don't have enough information about God, why is he called "all-loving", "all-merciful" ?

Logically, if you can't judge one way, i.e. His bad actions, neither can you judge His good actions. The only reason to call him all-loving and merciful would be to appease him...

 

[hamelekim]

I only quote that part because this is an argument that I see often, and I got a question related to it.

Apparently we are not able to judge God or His actions. And after all, why not ? I can (somehow) understand that argument.

But on the other hand, if we don't have enough information about God, why is he called "all-loving", "all-merciful" ?

Logically, if you can't judge one way, i.e. His bad actions, neither can you judge His good actions. The only reason to call him all-loving and merciful would be to appease him...

This is the way I see it.

God is willing to forgive our sins and not destroy us outright for disobeying him. Any tyrant on earth would just kill those who disagree with him. That seems like the first sign that God isn't "evil".

Also, God sent his Son to earth to suffer and die for all humans sins for all of eternity. This meant being rejected by God the father and suffering all the punishment that we would receive. Why would a God that doesn't love and care for us bother to suffer like that?

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence? He loved us enough that he gave us free will and even after we sinned he sent his Son to suffer on the cross so that we would be forgiven.

You could argue that it's sick and twisted to have to set up a reality where someone has to suffer like that, but then we don't know the whole picture.

I think there is enough evidence with the teachings of Jesus of forgiveness and giving along with his sacrifice on the cross to make an argument for a just and good God who is worthy of worship and love.

If you believe the Bible then we are able to have a personal relationship with God, through Jesus, which means that we can get to know God and understand him better.

Once you do this that will open yourself to understand that he is all loving and merciful.

If you choose not to open yourself up to that experience then you will remain closed off and maintain your viewpoint.

Also, is there anything wrong with appeasing someone? We do this all the time with the relationship between parent and child, do we not? God is saying to trust him, that he is right, and we should do what he says because it is right.

It doesn't hurt that the reward for doing his will is eternal joy along with ruling the universe with God and being counted as his children rather than just creations.

I don't know, it's up to everyone to come to their own conclusions about God and spirituality, but I think people who discount the unseen are selling themselves short on understanding reality.

 

[paximperium]

Also, God sent his Son to earth to suffer and die for all humans sins for all of eternity. This meant being rejected by God the father and suffering all the punishment that we would receive. Why would a God that doesn't love and care for us bother to suffer like that?

Yes, why would he bother to showboat and play the drama queen when he could have just forgiven mankind?

So your god is not only petty, vengeful and hateful but a masochist and drama queen as well.

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence?

Yes. In every way it is wrong. Your god wants slaves. I consider slavery wrong.

I think there is enough evidence with the teachings of Jesus of forgiveness and giving along with his sacrifice on the cross to make an argument for a just and good God who is worthy of worship and love.

No.

Once you do this that will open yourself to understand that he is all loving and merciful.

If you choose not to open yourself up to that experience then you will remain closed off and maintain your viewpoint.

"For you to believe, you must first believe." Sorry, I like to use my brain.

Also, is there anything wrong with appeasing someone? We do this all the time with the relationship between parent and child, do we not?

Does the parent threatening eternal torture and imprisonment to his children if they don't clean their room? No? Your god does.

It doesn't hurt that the reward for doing his will is eternal joy along with ruling the universe with God and being counted as his children rather than just creations.

So your god treats his "creations" as toys unless they play his sick game? Wow.

I don't know, it's up to everyone to come to their own conclusions about God and spirituality, but I think people who discount the unseen are selling themselves short on understanding reality.

My conclusion is that it is a fantasy. My conclusion is that this fantasy's believers have a sick and evil morality. My conclusion is that this fantasy makes people stupid and harms society.

 

[six7s]

Logically, if you can't judge one way, i.e. His bad actions, neither can you judge His good actions.

Interesting point

However... it relies on logic, which is anathema to belief

Woo (only) works in mysterious ways

 

[six7s]

We honestly don't have enough information to decide that God is evil or wrong in his decisions.

True!

Sincere question:

How, "honestly", can/do you assert that you DO have enough information to decide that your God is good or right in his decisions?
​

Please answer without recourse to logical fallacies

TYIA

 

[Wildy]

God is willing to forgive our sins and not destroy us outright for disobeying him. Any tyrant on earth would just kill those who disagree with him. That seems like the first sign that God isn't "evil".

You mean like the deaths of Nadab and Abihu because they disobeyed God because they offered him "strange fire"? (Leviticus 10:1-2)

Or in Numbers 11:1 when God kills a bunch of people for complaining?

Or when God kills a bunch of people because as far as I can tell they ate quails that God sent (Numbers 11:31-34)?

Or numbers 15:2-36 where God commands that the Israelites kill some guy who picked up some sticks on the Sabbath?

They are instances of people who sinned and were killed for disobeying. Sounds quite evil to me.

Also, God sent his Son to earth to suffer and die for all humans sins for all of eternity. This meant being rejected by God the father and suffering all the punishment that we would receive. Why would a God that doesn't love and care for us bother to suffer like that?

Why wouldn't such a God just say that he's absolving everyone for their sins? What's the point of the big song and dance that he's sent his son who is apparently also himself to change a rule that he made?

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence? He loved us enough that he gave us free will and even after we sinned he sent his Son to suffer on the cross so that we would be forgiven.

Except that we aren't forgiven are we? That is something that I've noticed from certain Christians. Face it, when you say that "we would be forgiven" it's only when you accept that Jesus was nailed to a cross that you get this blanket forgiveness.

You could argue that it's sick and twisted to have to set up a reality where someone has to suffer like that, but then we don't know the whole picture.

So that means that we should just accept that God is good?

I think there is enough evidence with the teachings of Jesus of forgiveness and giving along with his sacrifice on the cross to make an argument for a just and good God who is worthy of worship and love.

There is also enough evidence for an unjust and cruel God who isn't worthy of worship or love.

If you believe the Bible then we are able to have a personal relationship with God, through Jesus, which means that we can get to know God and understand him better.

Except that this is an interpretation isn't it?

Once you do this that will open yourself to understand that he is all loving and merciful.

And I'm also guessing by ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

If you choose not to open yourself up to that experience then you will remain closed off and maintain your viewpoint.

What experience?

Also, is there anything wrong with appeasing someone? We do this all the time with the relationship between parent and child, do we not? God is saying to trust him, that he is right, and we should do what he says because it is right.

God sounds like a pretty lousy parent then. He just takes, takes, takes, and never gives anything.

It doesn't hurt that the reward for doing his will is eternal joy along with ruling the universe with God and being counted as his children rather than just creations.

Except that apparently to get such a reward you have to go through a process that turns you into something else. You don't get to go to heaven. A shell of you gets to. But instead of being you, you are instead what God wants you to be.

I don't know, it's up to everyone to come to their own conclusions about God and spirituality, but I think people who discount the unseen are selling themselves short on understanding reality.

Because we all know that supernatural things are 100% real. But maybe I'm not being fair here. Why don't you tell us how "the unseen" helps us to understand reality?

 

[Paulhoff]

This is the way I see it.

First off, I see no need for your so-called god or your idea of a so-called god, so that is the way I see it. But for now lets pretend there is one and see why we can judge it.

God is willing to forgive our sins and not destroy us outright for disobeying him. Any tyrant on earth would just kill those who disagree with him. That seems like the first sign that God isn't "evil".

So an all-powerful god makes imperfect being, makes sin, (we are not gods so we can not make anything, not even sin), and it does not kill us for it mistakes, how sweet. What about that so-called flood, no one died.

Also, God sent his Son to earth to suffer and die for all humans sins for all of eternity. This meant being rejected by God the father and suffering all the punishment that we would receive. Why would a God that doesn't love and care for us bother to suffer like that?

Sent his son, most people say, "Gave his son", and where is this son now? Next to him, now sweet. Why would God not make sin in the first place, end of story then. Oh, why would heaven not have sin, nothing to do other than to watch a so-called god forever.

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence? He loved us enough that he gave us free will and even after we sinned he sent his Son to suffer on the cross so that we would be forgiven.

Loved and worshiped, doesn't that sound a little bit self-centered to you, like a TYRANT. Free will, that is a joke, it isn't free if it comes with a cost.

You could argue that it's sick and twisted to have to set up a reality where someone has to suffer like that, but then we don't know the whole picture.

That is a cop-out for a poor idea of what a loving so-called god would and could do. So why is there no suffering in heaven, how did he get it right there and not here.

I think there is enough evidence with the teachings of Jesus of forgiveness and giving along with his sacrifice on the cross to make an argument for a just and good God who is worthy of worship and love.

Sure, it throws his only son to the dogs, what chance in hell do we have.

If you believe the Bible then we are able to have a personal relationship with God, through Jesus, which means that we can get to know God and understand him better.

Can you explain to me ago about not being a Tyrant, and all the killing in the OT that he has done in his name.

Once you do this that will open yourself to understand that he is all loving and merciful.

Yes, the merciful way children have and are dying now shows me that.

If you choose not to open yourself up to that experience then you will remain closed off and maintain your viewpoint.

No, that would be, NOT THINKING, yes, that is the ticket.

Also, is there anything wrong with appeasing someone? We do this all the time with the relationship between parent and child, do we not? God is saying to trust him, that he is right, and we should do what he says because it is right.

This so-called god of yours, sounds so childish for a god. His way or your gone to hell FOREVER, not a very good parent.

It doesn't hurt that the reward for doing his will is eternal joy along with ruling the universe with God and being counted as his children rather than just creations.

Once again, what in hell makes you think that he gotten heaven right, you do remenber the fallen angels.

I don't know, it's up to everyone to come to their own conclusions about God and spirituality, but I think people who discount the unseen are selling themselves short on understanding reality.

I don't see eletrons, black holes, cells etc, so don't tell me about discounting the unseen. But having a so-called god that can be anything you what it to be is selling yourselve short, very very short.

Paul

 

[Ladewig]

From our human perspective that seems rather unfair, but then our morals have been "corrupted by sin and Satan". If that is the case and we are corrupted and do not have all the information we cannot say that God is wrong and be correct.

And yet, our satan-corrupted morals allow us to say that slavery is always wrong and that rape is always wrong. What a bizarre stance you take.

. . . . . . . . .
ETA: The absurdity of God's sense of justice should be apparent to any rational being. Imagine a city where every crime was punished with the death penalty. Kill a dozen people; be put to death. Park your car too close to a hydrant; be put to death. This system becomes even more outlandishly irrational when people who think about committing crimes are executed as well. Think about parking your car too close to a hydrant; be put to death.

How very clever of Satan to make us think that the punishment should fit the crime, to make us think that the amount of harm done to innocent people should be a factor in determining how much punishment is appropriate. How very wicked of us to not follow God's example and to, instead, have punishments of varying degrees.

p.s. the Earth is billions of years old.

 

[Elizabeth I]

God created existence knowing that 1/3 of the Angels would fall, that Satan would tempt Eve and that humanity would fall.

I'm with the people who want to see the quote from the Bible, with chapter and verse cited, to support the highlighted portion of your post. I believe you have conflated two different pieces of poetic fiction.

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence?

Do you not listen to yourself? Do you honestly not see how petty and ungodlike that sounds? The almighty Creator of the Universe demands love? "<snivel, whine>I'm GOD! You have to love me! If you don't I'll make you sorry!"

 

[Moochie]

Yes, why would he bother to showboat and play the drama queen when he could have just forgiven mankind?

So your god is not only petty, vengeful and hateful but a masochist and drama queen as well.
Yes. In every way it is wrong. Your god wants slaves. I consider slavery wrong.
No.
"For you to believe, you must first believe." Sorry, I like to use my brain.
Does the parent threatening eternal torture and imprisonment to his children if they don't clean their room? No? Your god does.
So your god treats his "creations" as toys unless they play his sick game? Wow.
My conclusion is that it is a fantasy. My conclusion is that this fantasy's believers have a sick and evil morality. My conclusion is that this fantasy makes people stupid and harms society.

As I've alluded to before, this particular version of God and his followers seem better suited to a BDSM dungeon than a church, except that the actual BDSMers I've known would probably throw them out for not having a "safe word".


M.

 

[Geezer]

This is the way I see it.

God is willing to forgive our sins and not destroy us outright for disobeying him. Any tyrant on earth would just kill those who disagree with him. That seems like the first sign that God isn't "evil".

Also, God sent his Son to earth to suffer and die for all humans sins for all of eternity. This meant being rejected by God the father and suffering all the punishment that we would receive. Why would a God that doesn't love and care for us bother to suffer like that?

Yes, God wants to be loved and worshiped, is there something wrong with that when you are the creator of everything in existence? He loved us enough that he gave us free will and even after we sinned he sent his Son to suffer on the cross so that we would be forgiven.

You could argue that it's sick and twisted to have to set up a reality where someone has to suffer like that, but then we don't know the whole picture.

I think there is enough evidence with the teachings of Jesus of forgiveness and giving along with his sacrifice on the cross to make an argument for a just and good God who is worthy of worship and love.

If you believe the Bible then we are able to have a personal relationship with God, through Jesus, which means that we can get to know God and understand him better.

Once you do this that will open yourself to understand that he is all loving and merciful.

If you choose not to open yourself up to that experience then you will remain closed off and maintain your viewpoint.

Also, is there anything wrong with appeasing someone? We do this all the time with the relationship between parent and child, do we not? God is saying to trust him, that he is right, and we should do what he says because it is right.

It doesn't hurt that the reward for doing his will is eternal joy along with ruling the universe with God and being counted as his children rather than just creations.

I don't know, it's up to everyone to come to their own conclusions about God and spirituality, but I think people who discount the unseen are selling themselves short on understanding reality.

Man, your god can be such a douche sometimes.
"Here's free will but if you use it any other way than I tell you to, you'll burn in hell"
I'm glad he's fictional.