French church attacked by terrorists

[BStrong]

2 people take 5 hostages, kill one of them and are then in turn killed themselves by police? Yes I can imagine this happens fairly regularly "under the radar" in the same sense that, say, bank robberies happen fairly regularly "under the radar" with about the same number of people taking place and/or getting killed.

Very rare in the criminal world, sop in the terrorist world.

 

[dudalb]

Question is .. is there a solution to this ? I mean if we stop people from entering the country, if we can't even deport them, and if we can't jail them for life based on what they might do ..

That's the problem. Persuction of Muslims just because they are Muslims and "Might be radicals" will just end up making a lot more radicals...and no way can you keep them all out.

 

[dudalb]

Very rare in the criminal world, sop in the terrorist world.

Hostage taking by bank robbers happens a lot more in the movies and on TV then it ever did in real life. One reason: taking a hostage is kidnapping,and kidnapping will get you a lot more hard time then just bank robbery. Religious wackjobs who are prepared to die for their God don't have that inhibition.

 

[Craig B]

No... just pointing out that your sentence "insane and bigoted people who feel inclined to commit horrors of this kind" should probably read "insane and bigoted Muslims who feel inclined to commit horrors of this kind" because it ain't Methodists, however troubled, who read about ISIS atrocities and say 'hey, I'd like to get in on that'.

Note: That's very different to simply attributing it to Islam.

That's right. ISIS seeks the support of insane and bigoted Muslims. But in murdering priests, or in endorsing and ratifying such an atrocity, it doesn't receive the support of sane and non-bigoted Muslims.

And if I place responsibility for this on ISIS, and you agree, and if you don't attribute this crime indiscriminately to adherents of Islam, as I do not; what on Earth did you find to comment on in my post?

 

[Giz]

That's right. ISIS seeks the support of insane and bigoted Muslims. But in murdering priests, or in endorsing and ratifying such an atrocity, it doesn't receive the support of sane and non-bigoted Muslims.

And if I place responsibility for this on ISIS, and you agree, and if you don't attribute this crime indiscriminately to adherents of Islam, as I do not; what on Earth did you find to comment on in my post?

You realize that this coyness is what vast swathes of the public find infuriating, right?

The list of subsets should have read:
Bigoted
insane
Muslim

But you couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge the third one.

 

[A'isha]

You realize that this coyness is what vast swathes of the public find infuriating, right?

The list of subsets should have read:
Bigoted
insane
Muslim

But you couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge the third one.

I suppose it depends on whether you think the "bigoted and insane" part matters less than the "Muslim" part.

 

[Craig B]

You realize that this coyness is what vast swathes of the public find infuriating, right?

The list of subsets should have read:
Bigoted
insane
Muslim

But you couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge the third one.

What are you on about? Read your own words.

That's very different to simply attributing it to Islam.

So are you attributing it to Islam as such or not? Who's being coy and infuriating now? Metacristi will be infuriated at your laxity, I'm sure.

ETA Islam produced this too.

The nationwide French Council of the Muslim Faith (Conseil français du culte musulman or CFCM) denounced the attack as a “terrifying and horrifying act” and expressing its solidarity with “all Catholics of France”.

“[We call on] all leaders of different faiths to meet, exchange and fight against this hateful speech,” the CFCM said.

Their calls were backed by the Muslim group CRCM (Conseil régional du culte musulmam), which announced that it would hold a minute of silence for the victims on Thursday.

Meanwhile, the imam of the mosque in the northern French town where a church was attacked Tuesday said he was "stunned" by the murder of the local priest, who he described as a friend.

"I don't understand, all of our prayers go to his family and the Catholic community," said Mohammed Karabila.​

 

[dudalb]

What are you on about? Read your own words. So are you attributing it to Islam as such or not? Who's being coy and infuriating now? Metacristi will be infuriated at your laxity, I'm sure.

I attribute it to a fanatical and violent interpretation of Islam,not shared by most Muslims. False Dichotomy,guy.
BUt you inability to admit that Islam does have a major problem with it's fanatical wing is getting to be quite amusing...and is not selling beyond your political circle.

 

[Polaris]

That's right. ISIS seeks the support of insane and bigoted Muslims. But in murdering priests, or in endorsing and ratifying such an atrocity, it doesn't receive the support of sane and non-bigoted Muslims.

And if I place responsibility for this on ISIS, and you agree, and if you don't attribute this crime indiscriminately to adherents of Islam, as I do not; what on Earth did you find to comment on in my post?

This attack would seem to me to directly target Western hearts and minds, in order to make them angry, retaliate against Muslims, and swell the ranks of ISIS. It probably wasn't aimed at Muslim support directly, but rather follows the classical MO of terrorism.

 

[Giz]

What are you on about? Read your own words. So are you attributing it to Islam as such or not? Who's being coy and infuriating now? Metacristi will be infuriated at your laxity, I'm sure.

It's not "simply attributing it to Islam" to point out that islam is part of the picture.

 

[dudalb]

I am being driven crazy that so many people here seem unable to have a position other then "ISLAM IS EVIL!" or Those who not want to admit..for PC reasons....that Islam has a serious problem with it's Extremist Wing. Attributing the motives of these attacks to just about anything but Extreme Islamic Ideology is getting to be pretty silly.

 

[Giz]

I attribute it to a fanatical and violent interpretation of Islam,not shared by most Muslims. False Dichotomy,guy.
BUt you inability to admit that Islam does have a major problem with it's fanatical wing is getting to be quite amusing...and is not selling beyond your political circle.

This.

 

[dudalb]

This attack would seem to me to directly target Western hearts and minds, in order to make them angry, retaliate against Muslims, and swell the ranks of ISIS. It probably wasn't aimed at Muslim support directly, but rather follows the classical MO of terrorism.

What scares me is that we will see attacks like this in the US with the main motive of electing Trump,which would be the biggest victory imaginable for ISIS and Al Qaeda.

 

[Belz...]

I attribute it to a fanatical and violent interpretation of Islam,not shared by most Muslims.

Not shared by most, but a significant portion of world Muslims support death for apostasy and punishments for homosexuality.

 

[Belz...]

What scares me is that we will see attacks like this in the US with the main motive of electing Trump,which would be the biggest victory imaginable for ISIS and Al Qaeda.

Yes, and ISIS knows it.

I think both the right and the left have good points in the political sphere, but the extremes on both sides I want to avoid, and this sort of repeated tragedy can only help one extreme.

 

[Craig B]

I am being driven crazy that so many people here seem unable to have a position other then "ISLAM IS EVIL!" or Those who not want to admit..for PC reasons....that Islam has a serious problem with it's Extremist Wing. Attributing the motives of these attacks to just about anything but Extreme Islamic Ideology is getting to be pretty silly.

Eh? I was told the proper descriptions were

Bigoted
insane
Muslim

You're now saying that should be

Bigoted
insane
Extreme Islamic Ideology.

Fine. No problem.

So you can stop being driven crazy now; there was never any need to be.

 

[Aepervius]

2 people take 5 hostages, kill one of them and are then in turn killed themselves by police? Yes I can imagine this happens fairly regularly "under the radar" in the same sense that, say, bank robberies happen fairly regularly "under the radar" with about the same number of people taking place and/or getting killed.

We are speaking of france countryside here. Heck even France. We are not speaking on "it is again Friday" in the US. Such situation are rare in france and in western europe in general.

 

[A'isha]

I attribute it to a fanatical and violent interpretation of Islam,not shared by most Muslims. False Dichotomy,guy.
BUt you inability to admit that Islam does have a major problem with it's fanatical wing is getting to be quite amusing...and is not selling beyond your political circle.

I think you're attributing more of a false dichotomy to him than he really believes. I don't think he'd disagree with the idea that ISIS follows a fanatical and violent interpretation of Islam, which is not shared by most Muslims but which does represent a fanatical wing of Islam that is a major problem. I certainly don't.

It looks to me like he's reacting to the people here who, as you say, seem unable to have a position other then "ISLAM IS EVIL!"

This attack would seem to me to directly target Western hearts and minds, in order to make them angry, retaliate against Muslims, and swell the ranks of ISIS. It probably wasn't aimed at Muslim support directly, but rather follows the classical MO of terrorism.

ISIS certainly wants a full-on confrontation with the West (it's part of their apocalyptic beliefs) and is trying to cause it to happen.

 

[Craig B]

We are speaking of france countryside here. Heck even France. We are not speaking on "it is again Friday" in the US. Such situation are rare in france and in western europe in general.

A cleric being murdered in Church in France during a service, by religious opponents, has been a rarity since the Wars of Religion in the seventeenth century, I imagine.

What a hideous return to the worst period of religious history ISIS is trying to bring about.

 

[theprestige]

What scares me is that we will see attacks like this in the US with the main motive of electing Trump,which would be the biggest victory imaginable for ISIS and Al Qaeda.

ISIS' endgame is an apocalyptic confrontation between the devout and the infidel. I'm increasingly of the opinion that we should partner with them to bring that about as soon as possible. If electing Trump gets us there, what's not to like?