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Free Britney!

Belz... said:
Really, he's the one who cleared up the semantic nonsense in order to cut to the heart of the matter.
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Again, his salary is court-ordered, so "This guy, pays this guy" is not just unlettered but false.

I don't think either of you is being dishonest, but the point of the matter is that, wording aside, she has no money of her own, effectively speaking.
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What does this mean? She has no spending money?
 
Cain said:
Again, his salary is court-ordered, so "This guy, pays this guy" is not just unlettered but false.

What does this mean? She has no spending money?
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She's on a weekly allowance. She has no direct access to most of her money, certainly not enough to hire her own lawyers and shrinks, even if she was allowed to.
 
Darat said:
Michel H said:
This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
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No she doesn't.
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The website FreeBritney.net seems to confirm what you wrote:
As a conservatee, Britney Spears has been blocked from having custody of her children, choosing her own doctor and medical treatment, and hiring a lawyer of her choice. Her conservators decide whether or not she works, as she cannot enter into contracts for herself because she is legally not her own person. Britney Spears needs permission from her conservators to leave her house or spend any of her own money.
Britney's conservators maintain that she is too disabled due to dementia to care for herself despite an active career and personal life. During the thirteen years of Spears's conservatorship she has repeatedly toured the world, released multiple albums, and worked on a variety of television shows. The judge who initially approved the permanent probate conservatorship stated that it was for protecting her finances and businesses.
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(https://www.freebritney.net/)

But this seems rather theoretical to me (she is not in jail).

Does she really have armed guards in her house, who would be ready to use physical violence if she attempted to talk to the doctor across the street?
I am not aware of that. She is, as far as I know (this is the U.S.) entitled to her First Amendment rights (freedom of speech, and also the right to assemble). As for paying the (doctor's) bill, if this was really necessary, many of her fans or supporters would probably be ready to help.
 
Michel H said:
....
She is, as far as I know (this is the U.S.) entitled to her First Amendment rights (freedom of speech, and also the right to assemble). As for paying the (doctor's) bill, if this was really necessary, many of her fans or supporters would probably be ready to help.
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To repeat, she has no rights. She is legally a child. She is subject to continuous supervision, like any 10-year-old.
 
Bob001 said:
She's on a weekly allowance.
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Which adds up to over 100K/year -- a spending allowance that far exceeds the average American (and does not count housing costs, staff, child support payments, etc).

She has no direct access to most of her money...
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Which is kinda the point. If she got a monkey named "Bubbles," I'm sure fans would be cheering her on. As far as hiring her own lawyers and doctors, well, it's not like pop-stars are notorious for choosing yes-men. There are court-appointed doctors and lawyers...
 
Anybody make a incredibly annoyning video rant about this yet?

Seems to me that convervatorships should be for a limited time and automatically come up for review when they expire. But I guess lawyers might make less money that way.
 
Belz... said:
Cain, come on. You've been reading the thread, haven't you?
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"She has no money of her own" means she merely has a hundred thousand dollars a year to kick around. The things that matter are the things that have always mattered: autonomy, community, friendship, love, and so on, but here's the monkey-wrench: she's mentally troubled. She's so far gone that full custody of her kids has been awarded to Kevin Federline. He's the superior parent. I understand that women do not have much of a choice when it comes to having kids with K-Fed, but she chose to marry Kevin Super-Sperm Federline. After she drunk-married some dude in Vegas.

Like the Woody Allen nonsense, this hashtag activism probably gets traction in the court of public opinion because that's where ******** flourishes.
 
To some extent, it's not just drawing a conclusion about whether Ms. Spears is being wronged, but studying the system and wondering if there are sufficient safeguards in place. If the grievances she makes are true, if she's right about not needing all this, would there be a reliable way to stop it? If that's not an obvious yes, that's rather scary.
 
gnome said:
To some extent, it's not just drawing a conclusion about whether Ms. Spears is being wronged, but studying the system and wondering if there are sufficient safeguards in place. If the grievances she makes are true, if she's right about not needing all this, would there be a reliable way to stop it? If that's not an obvious yes, that's rather scary.
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That actually seems pretty easy. The conservatorship is really intended for people who are permanently disabled, as from Alzheimer's or brain injury. In the case of somebody like Spears, who could be expected to recover from her crisis, it should be reviewed at least every year, maybe more often, and it should be up to the people asking for it to prove that it's necessary and that less stringent treatment wouldn't be effective. It shouldn't be up to the subject to prove that it should end.

I note that according to the New Yorker article, at one point Spears' father apparently signed a form that Spears, around 24 at the time, was suffering from dementia. That would be part of the documentation of her case. It should be up to anyone making a claim like that to prove it, not up to her to prove otherwise.
 
Bob001 said:
I note that according to the New Yorker article, at one point Spears' father apparently signed a form that Spears, around 24 at the time, was suffering from dementia. That would be part of the documentation of her case. It should be up to anyone making a claim like that to prove it, not up to her to prove otherwise.
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Psychosis is a known risk for people with bipolar disorder, but not dementia.
 
Belz... said:
If she has permission. She can't spend it at will.
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What does that even mean? She wants to order something from -- I dunno -- the Piggly Wiggly or the gift shop at Cracker Barrel, but her father must personally approve each and every kitschy bauble? And you know this for a fact -- it's not based on a Spears' rantings or the FreeBritney people (who sound like QAnon with a lisp). I understand Republicans outraged the Deep Court has commandeered her finances, but liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
 
Bob001 said:
The second link in my initial post described an extensive conservatorship fraud in which doctors and judges were complicit. If Spears doesn't want to be examined by a shrink chosen by her conservators, maybe it's because that's how she got locked down in the first place.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights
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she was quoted basically saying that just this morning. Hopefully the publicity will shut this court order quasi slavery down and give her her life back. Screw daddy.....
 
Cain said:
What does that even mean? She wants to order something from -- I dunno -- the Piggly Wiggly or the gift shop at Cracker Barrel, but her father must personally approve each and every kitschy bauble? And you know this for a fact -- it's not based on a Spears' rantings or the FreeBritney people (who sound like QAnon with a lisp). I understand Republicans outraged the Deep Court has commandeered her finances, but liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
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I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
 
Belz... said:
I thought that was very simple English.
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Simple English is not necessarily unambiguous -- and now you're being characteristically weasley. "She has no money of her own" meant over a hundred K to shop, but "she needs permission." I followed the question with a straight-forward scenario to illustrate its meaning. There's a significant difference when it comes to itemized permission versus being granted open-ended at approved various stores versus something else entirely.

It's like pulling teeth. Google "Britney Spears Shopping"

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but it seems like you have an axe to grind that is blinding you on this topic.
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Nah. That's just you skirting around the substance with a fallacy of irrelevance.
 
Britney's mom is on her side.
Britney Spears’ mother, Lynne Spears, asked the Los Angeles Superior Court to allow the pop star to select her own legal representation so she can start the process of ending the conservatorship that has restricted her rights for 13 years.
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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lynn...ervatorship-lawyer_n_60e5faebe4b0f79e8fe6fb25

In a petition filed Tuesday with the L.A. County Superior Court, Lynne Spears requested that her middle child be allowed to hire her own private attorney, or to have the court appoint an attorney of the singer’s choosing.
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https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...tney-spears-lynne-spears-new-attorney-request
 
gnome said:
I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
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The biggest hurdle is the permission of the judge.
 
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