Franko Memorial thread!

[CWL]

or you might even say:

gravitons are memes

[/lurk mode]

... and memes are (of course) quite simply distinct packages of information.

Does that mean that a "distinct package of information" is the same as "matter" in LD cosmology? What if the information is not "distinct" - is it not "matter" then?

Moreover, what makes an information package "distinct"? Is it wrapped in special meme wrapping paper?

 

[Tricky]

[/lurk mode]

... and memes are (of course) quite simply distinct packages of information.

Does that mean that a "distinct package of information" is the same as "matter" in LD cosmology? What if the information is not "distinct" - is it not "matter" then?

Moreover, what makes an information package "distinct"? Is it wrapped in special meme wrapping paper?

So let's see what we have so far:

Gravitons = souls = memes = time = energy = information = matter.

Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah, the real definition of
gravitons.

From Merriam-Webster
a hypothetical particle with zero charge and rest mass that is held to be the quantum of the gravitational field

 

[wraith]

Q-Cumber

wraith: In reality, all that exists is consciousness. Matter is simply "what is" when consciousnesses communicate.

Q-Source: Could you define again Matter?
What do you mean by "what is" ?

Matter is a meme. An idea. If you and I were consciousnesses floating around in space, how would we communicate? We could exchange energy (ie an idea) and perceive it in the form of what we call matter. Such as "tree" or "rock" or "Q-Source's sofa"

The way in which we perceive this universe could be the same as a character's perception of the universe in one of your dreams (assuming that the character in your dream could perceive) perhaps Im one of those charaters? Maybe you are aswell

Q-Source: If you say in reality there is only consciousness then, it is impossible that there is also matter....

So you have to decide what reality is made of.
a)only matter
b) only consciousness
c) both

Matter is a meme/idea.
As we talk to each other, we are exchanging memes, only we need TLOP to do this so it is relayed to God then to you.

wraith: Now we can go right on in and plough over the "hard problem" and unearth the nature of consciousness. LD possess that consciousness is the source of gravity ( or is it the other way around...I get them mixed up )

Q-Source: Oh, you are not a fast graviton
Let's hope Franko doesn't notice that confusion

lol
....not at the expense of the Truth, in that, I hope that he does

wraith: and the other 3 forces of nature are controlled by God. In this, your soul/you source of "I"/consciousness is gravity. A particle in reality that perceives.

Q-Source: As far as I know, Frank says that only Gravity is conscious

So you agree that TLOP =/= conscious

Yes exactly. Gravity/Soul/Consciousness.
TLOP is conscious YES!

Again, is consciousness the only reality?
are gravitons made of matter?
if this is the case, then reality is not made of consciousness only.

You may have heard Franko say that LDs (remember Christians and Muslims....or any other believer in God/s, Karma (Fate), responsibility for ones actions can be seen as an LD) are the true materialists.

The Soul/Graviton is matter. However it's not the same as what you perceive as "normal matter" like a tree or a rock.

Are you saying that a Graviton is not energy as well?

If graviton = consciousness = gravity

and you claim that graviton = matter then,

it implies that matter = consciousness

lol
and thats absolutely correct....
We are the true materialists
The difference between us and a rock is that we can perceive and a rock cant. It's a meme thought up by God/Goddess.

 

[Q-Source]

Wraith,

Your post is full of inconsistencies and incoherences, I don't know even how to respond.

Matter is a meme. An idea. If you and I were consciousnesses floating around in space, how would we communicate? We could exchange energy (ie an idea) and perceive it in the form of what we call matter.

You are redefining what we all understand by "matter" .

If meme is an idea, then why you call it matter?

Yes exactly. Gravity/Soul/Consciousness.
TLOP is conscious YES!

No, I think that you need to read again my question.

Gravity is the only LOP that is conscious according to you. If we have 4 LOP, then it means that TLOP cannot be conscious... unless all of them are conscious!!

You may have heard Franko say that LDs (remember Christians and Muslims....or any other believer in God/s, Karma (Fate), responsibility for ones actions can be seen as an LD) are the true materialists.

Yeah, sure

The Soul/Graviton is matter. However it's not the same as what you perceive as "normal matter" like a tree or a rock.

Didn't you say before that matter is a meme?

If a tree or a rock are not "normal matter" then they are not matter!

Make your mind and answer the question again: what is matter?
what makes a person a true materialist?

and thats absolutely correct....
We are the true materialists

If you accept that consciousness= matter that does not make you a true materialist, that just makes you an idealist, a mentalist.

Q-S

 

[wraith]

Rather pertinent points, I think, QS. I have only one more:

Whichever it is, it does not compute. There is no correlation between the gravity of an object and its consciousness. So what is the difference between the gravity of a human and the gravity of a rock, according to LD?

Hans

That's a good question actually.

Well consciousness is the source of gravity while a rock is a meme. The strength of one's consciousness (gravity) can be seen on how effective you are at influencing one's Fate.

Speaking of the gravity generated from a rock, does not imply that it's conscious. It's simply an idea (generated by TLOP).....

I want to come back to this question when Im more equipped to answer it fullly, so stay tuned Hanny

 

[wraith]

I forget if I ever heard what Franco's definition of a "graviton" was. Does anyone recall?

Hi Hammegk

Graviton = Soul = Consciousness

 

[wraith]

Hmmm. I shall go into lurk mode for a while, awaiting your response to Q-Source's and Hans' respective replies to the above.

roger that

 

[wraith]

Sorry, Grasshopper, but you didn't learn very well at the foot of your master.
You could say:

Gravitons are made of time

or you might even say:

gravitons are memes

Or even gravitons are souls. But nowhere does The List indicate that gravitons are matter. Of course, if you want to argue that matter is made of time... well, that would be just about as intelligent as anything else you have said.

WELL TRICKS!
A Graviton is made of Time and a Meme (or multiples of memes?) How can you have a Soul or "a sense of I" without history or time?

Then you agree there is no useful distinction between ordinary matter and "dreamworld matter"? If so, why even mention the latter?

Because you beliefs sets your path in life. Our perceptions on what matter is, is just one of these beliefs, that will yield outcomes different to each other. With one of us being closer to the Truth than the other

At least you had the good sense not to indicate which one of us was closer to Truth.

HAH

Let Time speak for itself

 

[wraith]

[/lurk mode]

... and memes are (of course) quite simply distinct packages of information.

Does that mean that a "distinct package of information" is the same as "matter" in LD cosmology?

Yes. Take a rock. That's information transmitted to you and interpreted by you.

What if the information is not "distinct" - is it not "matter" then?

Moreover, what makes an information package "distinct"? Is it wrapped in special meme wrapping paper?

Im not sure on this one.
This is one for Franko when he gets back

 

[wraith]

Wraith,

Your post is full of inconsistencies and incoherences, I don't know even how to respond.

really?

You are redefining what we all understand by "matter" .

If meme is an idea, then why you call it matter?

call it something else if you dont like the word It's still something that we interpret.

Gravity is the only LOP that is conscious according to you. If we have 4 LOP, then it means that TLOP cannot be conscious... unless all of them are conscious!!

3 of the 4 forces is controlled by God. Why are there 4 forces? Right now, I dont know. This question ties with the question that Hans asked before in relation to the differences between the gravity of a rock and a human.

When my understanding about the subject is sufficient, I will rant on haha, for now stay tuned

Didn't you say before that matter is a meme?

If a tree or a rock are not "normal matter" then they are not matter!

Make your mind and answer the question again: what is matter?
what makes a person a true materialist?

You see matter as this "hard stuff" all around the universe. It's this "matter creating consciousness" idea that youre looking at the universe with.

Isnt matter something that "stimulates" one or more of your senses that you interpret as something?

If you accept that consciousness= matter that does not make you a true materialist, that just makes you an idealist, a mentalist.

Ever seen the Matrix? An observer in the matrix, perceived the simulated dreamworld as "matter"

 

[MRC_Hans]

That's a good question actually.

Well consciousness is the source of gravity while a rock is a meme. The strength of one's consciousness (gravity) can be seen on how effective you are at influencing one's Fate.

Speaking of the gravity generated from a rock, does not imply that it's conscious. It's simply an idea (generated by TLOP).....

I want to come back to this question when Im more equipped to answer it fullly, so stay tuned Hanny

Yuck! Thats a lot of hot air. A rock is a meme? How does it have gravity, then. Can I hit you on the head with a meme (rock)? Do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just smoke-screening?

Sorry, Wraithie, I was looking for logic (as in Logical Deism, heheh), not babble. Not exactly gonna stay tuned, but I'll probably notice if you should start talking sense some day.

Took you a long time to really burn out, but it seems to have happened after all. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Hans

 

[CWL]

Ever seen the Matrix? An observer in the matrix, perceived the simulated dreamworld as "matter"

There you go. Thank you for finally revealing the source of the Logical Deist cosmology.

 

[Upchurch]

Ever seen the Matrix? An observer in the matrix, perceived the simulated dreamworld as "matter"

Ha! I knew it. Just yesterday I was reading through this garbage and thinking, "man, this sounds like he pulled it from The Matrix." I almost posted something to that effect but I didn't have the time yesterday.

I wonder if Franko sees himself as Morpheus or Neo?

 

[c4ts]

Ha! I knew it. Just yesterday I was reading through this garbage and thinking, "man, this sounds like he pulled it from The Matrix." I almost posted something to that effect but I didn't have the time yesterday.

I wonder if Franko sees himself as Morpheus or Neo?

And I thought I was the only one making fun of it... oh, he's serious, isn't he?

 

[hammegk]

Iff you assume Wraith's matrix has "the real world" outside it, either dualism is true, or materialism is true. Is that not logically correct?

 

[c4ts]

Iff you assume Wraith's matrix has "the real world" outside it, either dualism is true, or materialism is true. Is that not logically correct?

You mean it's not a materialistic explanation for dualism?

 

[Tricky]

WELL TRICKS!
A Graviton is made of Time and a Meme (or multiples of memes?) How can you have a Soul or "a sense of I" without history or time?

Ever hear of "new souls"? Unless souls have always been here, (i. e. no creation) then at some point they had no history. Besides, you also said gravitons are matter. According to the Sage, they must be, because they have charge and spin, properties which are only associated with matter. Seems to me that you like to call a graviton just about anything you like. It changes depending on the question. What a protean thing a graviton is!

Because you beliefs sets your path in life. Our perceptions on what matter is, is just one of these beliefs, that will yield outcomes different to each other. With one of us being closer to the Truth than the other

Well, that clarifies things quite a bit. Dreamworld matter exists for you because of the way you perceive matter. You must be dreaming.

Let Time speak for itself

Of that I have no worries. The "science" of Logical Deism will almost certainly go no further than these boards, whereas Einstein, Hawking and other real geniuses will be studied forever, because their theories have scientific basis, a concept that is completely alien to Logical Deists.

I'm guessing for you, Wraith, Time will help you grow out of this silly game you are playing. Come join us in the real world, Wraith. RPGs are fun, but they accomplish nothing.

 

[hammegk]

Replying to C4ts

Perhaps. And if so I think that is one of the more far-fetched and un-parsimonious ideas I've ever run across.

Do you find solace in it?

 

[c4ts]

Re: Replying to C4ts

Perhaps. And if so I think that is one of the more far-fetched ideas I've ever run across.

Do you find solace in it?

No.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Replying to C4ts

Perhaps. And if so I think that is one of the more far-fetched ideas I've ever run across.

Actually, given the context of The Matrix, it would be a materialist explination of dualism, i.e. the spirit of the avatars (matter) in the matrix are physical in the "real world".

And yes, it is far-fetched because, you know, a movie.