Franko Memorial thread!

[hammegk]

Actually, as wraith is using the term

TLOP = terrain of universe.

Math & physics are just the map.

If you define it to mean the opposite, you will reach other conclusions.

 

[Q-Source]

Actually, as wraith is using the term

TLOP = terrain of universe.

Math & physics are just the map.

Don't give him a hand. He has no clue what he is talking about. I have been trying to force him to define what he understands by "TLOP" and "Universe" (its nature), but as you can see from his responses he has no clue.

If you define it to mean the opposite, you will reach other conclusions.

Of course.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

nothing new

Well, since you've made no arguments outside of "says you", there really isn't anything for me to respond to.

If you ever get a counter argument, let me know.

 

[wraith]

Ok. So you take orders from "TLOP". Do you take orders from anything else which is inanimate? Did TLOP give you some time off today so that you could post on this board?

TLOP is inanimate?
I dont see this to be the case.

Yes, TLOP did give me time off to post today.
What a God!

TLOP = a description of the properties and behaviour of energy and matter. These properties could be said to define energy and matter in the same way as walls define a room - in the same way that "red", "juicy", "tasty" and "fruitlike" define an apple.

A description of energy and matter?
If I cut my thrusts on my F-22 and I started to glide towards the earth, TLOP is only describing the whole event and doesnt control it?

It describes the motion of the moon but it doesnt control it?

Can you see why it is not relevant to talk about "obeying" or "disobeying"? That is just a semantic construct which Franko probably has concocted based on the circumstance that we happen to call our description of the properties of the Universe "the 'laws' of physics" - which is slightly misleading since they are not "laws" at all. The description could just as well have been called "the description of the properties of stuff" or "description of how things tend to behave".

So in other words, we have created a "map"?
So whats the "terrain?

Pardon my French, Wraithy but I do not offer a rodent's behind for what the LD says. I am concerned with tangible evidence.

I am happy you at least agree that "consciousness does come from matter". When you say "just not in the sense that you think matter is", what do you mean and where is the evidence for your assertion?

If the Soul/Consciousness has a direct link to Gravity (with the Graviton being matter) then matter does create consciousness. But in the sense of the common understanding of "matter" in this universe, consciousness creates matter, sense what we perceive as matter is really energy.

What actual observations lead you (or the "LD") to assume whatever it is that you believe?

What assumptions?

The Almighty Syllogism and "TLOP > YOU" simply doesn't do the trick. There must be more.

Na, it does the Trick

 

[wraith]

Re: Re: Re: this guy is amazingly inconsistent!

wraith: Source, youre saying that man created TLOP.

Source: YES!
YES!
YES!

So no one ever fell towards the earth when they jumped off something untill humans created an equation?

wraith: How did mountains form if there wasnt man around to "create" TLOP?!

Source: Mountains formed BEFORE men "created" TLOP.

Universe= terrain
TLOP= map

How many times do you want me to repeat that?

TLOP are a mathematical description of how the Universe behaves. Get a dictionary.

I give up with you.

So TLOP is a mathematical description of the universe? That's fine, but what are we describing?
Are you saying that man created the very thing that is being described?

 

[wraith]

Don't give him a hand. He has no clue what he is talking about. I have been trying to force him to define what he understands by "TLOP" and "Universe" (its nature), but as you can see from his responses he has no clue.

OUCH. This one bites

 

[wraith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Well, since you've made no arguments outside of "says you", there really isn't anything for me to respond to.

If you ever get a counter argument, let me know.

Run little man

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Run little man

Da Funk ain't gone

Just waiting for you to actually refute one of my points.

 

[CWL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Da Funk ain't gone

Da Funk ain't never gone.

 

[wraith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Da Funk ain't gone

Just waiting for you to actually refute one of my points.

lol Churchy
whatever you reckon

 

[Tricky]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

lol Churchy
whatever you reckon

Ya know, Wraith, I really do appreciate that you have been posting without ad hominems (or at least not major ones) and I am also glad that you are keeping a good sense of humor. Those things are very important for making people want to talk to you.

But as Upchurch points out, until you actually address the points that others raise, rather than giving a flippant reply (like above), making a straw man, or relying on a non-sequitur, then you can never be taken seriously. I suspect that is not important to you. Perhaps you just enjoy this prolonged chain-yanking.

Well fine and good, if it amuses you. Just don't cling to the delusion that you are actually making sense to anyone. If you ever decide to put down your toys and actually debate, I think you could do pretty well. You don't seem to be so much dumb as stubborn. I'll keep an eye out for you to see if you mature a bit, but for now, I'll let you go back to your games. Just remember, they're no substitute for a real life.

 

[c4ts]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Da Funk ain't gone

Just waiting for you to actually refute one of my points.

Keep waiting. It's not going to happen because he can't refute your posts.

 

[wraith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Ya know, Wraith, I really do appreciate that you have been posting without ad hominems (or at least not major ones) and I am also glad that you are keeping a good sense of humor. Those things are very important for making people want to talk to you.

Right back at you slick

But as Upchurch points out, until you actually address the points that others raise, rather than giving a flippant reply (like above), making a straw man, or relying on a non-sequitur, then you can never be taken seriously. I suspect that is not important to you. Perhaps you just enjoy this prolonged chain-yanking.

I do believe that I have addressed all your issues, but if you didnt like the answer that was given, then I couldnt really give half a toss

Though if I have, did you want to readdress them?

Well fine and good, if it amuses you.

I have my moments

Just don't cling to the delusion that you are actually making sense to anyone.

I take it that you know from experience?

If you ever decide to put down your toys and actually debate, I think you could do pretty well. You don't seem to be so much dumb as stubborn.

lol touching

I'll keep an eye out for you to see if you mature a bit, but for now, I'll let you go back to your games. Just remember, they're no substitute for a real life.

oh you dont say?
If anything, youll probably resent me even more

 

[wraith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CAR controls YOU controls Abyss!

Keep waiting. It's not going to happen because he can't refute your posts.

...can you keep it to a low roar please cats?
...let the big boys handle this

 

[CWL]

I do believe that I have addressed all your issues, but if you didnt like the answer that was given, then I couldnt really give half a toss

I am afraid I must agree with Tricky, Wraith. You rarely address people's points, if at all. Instead you merely state and restate your position. Well, we've in fact all heard it by now. It is time for you to present some arguments for your position.

One prime example is the objection to "TLOP > YOU > CAR" which has been raised by several posters on this board (such as Upchurch, Tricky and myself).

The objection is simple. In order for the jingle to prove that "TLOP" is conscious (let's forget for a while that your view of what TLOP actually is, is rather confused) it has been pointed out to you, on an almost infinite number of occasions, that it must be proven that the proposition "If A controls B, A is always more conscious than B" is true.

What have you done to prove that this proposition is true? Do you in fact have any argument besides: "You don't obey TLOP ?!? "?

 

[wraith]

I am afraid I must agree with Tricky, Wraith. You rarely address people's points, if at all. Instead you merely state and restate your position. Well, we've in fact all heard it by now. It is time for you to present some arguments for your position. [/B]

Arguments? Ive presented my arguments.
I havnt heard ANY to support that matter creates consciousness. Except for correlations, which you guys seem to think that it's evidence against what I have been saying.

It's simply not the case. If you "beg to differ" then LETS HEAR IT!

One prime example is the objection to "TLOP > YOU > CAR" which has been raised by several posters on this board (such as Upchurch, Tricky and myself).

You guys have a Triad thing happening?

The objection is simple. In order for the jingle to prove that "TLOP" is conscious (let's forget for a while that your view of what TLOP actually is, is rather confused) it has been pointed out to you, on an almost infinite number of occasions, that it must be proven that the proposition "If A controls B, A is always more conscious than B" is true.

What have you done to prove that this proposition is true? Do you in fact have any argument besides: "You don't obey TLOP ?!? "?

TLOP controls everything in this Universe. Even Life, from the single celled to us. The consciousness with a higher degree of awareness (more complex) tend to control the consciousness with a weaker degree of awareness (less complex).

When was the las time that you were controlled by an animal or by a bar of soap?

 

[Upchurch]

When was the las time that you were controlled by an animal or by a bar of soap?

My dogs have me well trained. They scratch the back door and I open it up for them. Also, I nearly slipped on a bar of soap once.

 

[Tricky]

Arguments? Ive presented my arguments.
I havnt heard ANY to support that matter creates consciousness. Except for correlations, which you guys seem to think that it's evidence against what I have been saying.

It's simply not the case. If you "beg to differ" then LETS HEAR IT!

You don't accept evidence, Wraith. Correlations are evidence. What do you want for evidence? You want logic? Okay, then I give you logic.

Matter without conciousness is proven to exist.
Consciousness without matter is not proven to exist.
Therefore (according to everything we know so far) matter is a prerequisite for consciousness.

If you neither accept correlations nor logic, then pray tell us what you consider to be "evidence"?

TLOP controls everything in this Universe. Even Life, from the single celled to us. The consciousness with a higher degree of awareness (more complex) tend to control the consciousness with a weaker degree of awareness (less complex).

Can you show us some evidence? You have already thrown out both correlations and logic as evidence, so let us hear what you have to support this. Magic perhaps?

When was the las time that you were controlled by an animal or by a bar of soap?

Guard dogs are bred and trained specifically for controlling certain kinds of humans (thieves).

Soap causes some people to break out in a rash.

So now your questions have been answered and your objections refuted. The honorable thing would be for you to admit you are wrong. I predict you will not be honorable. Please prove me wrong.

 

[CWL]

TLOP controls everything in this Universe. Even Life, from the single celled to us. The consciousness with a higher degree of awareness (more complex) tend to control the consciousness with a weaker degree of awareness (less complex).

"Tend" to control?

I repeat, in order for the jingle "TLOP > YOU > CAR" to prove that "TLOP" is conscious, the proposition "If A controls B then A is always more conscious than B" must be absolutely true.

"Tend" doesn't cut it. Or, are you admitting that "If A controls B then A is always more conscious than B" is not always true? If so, your TLOP jingle is worthless.

If you are of a different opinion, how about some evidence to back it up?

 

[Dancing David]

I have yet to see any proof of consiousness outside of matter, but then I am limited to physical senses.

TLOP controls me, yeah right like TLOP gives a crap.

One of the things that I like about chaos and physics it it ansewrs questions like, why was I raped when I was six, why?
Are you saying that TLOP choose to rape me, I would much rather think that there is no ulterior consiousness. Why have evil, babies starving? Some controlling TLOP, a heartless TLOP is an evil TLOP. Easier to believe there is no ultimate controlling force in the world.

Unless you chose to belive that TLOP likes killing and tortuing things.

Sheesh, logical diety, they are human creations and beyond the contol of logicPeace

Franko memorial thread is no longer memorial, Franko lives!

Peace