Darat,
By the way I should mention that I did read a lot of your posts a few months ago but to be honest haven’t been paying very much attention for a while so I’m sorry if I am asking you about things you may be a bit tired or even exasperated about answering repeatedly.
I don’t mind a certain amount of reiteration. Especially when I sense it is not a deliberate diversion. Inconsistencies are magnified over Time (Parsimony). By re-stating things I am forced to refine my metaphors (memes). They become more consistent, they become more parsimonious. Their velocity, and thus their force, is increased.
Two comments – the first one about your answer to my question – I admire the honesty of anyone who isn’t afraid to say “I don’t know”.
Ohh … don’t ever think that I am claiming to know everything. I am just claiming that Logical deism can explain many more things than Materialism can. I’m not claiming that everything I say is always 100% accurate either. When it comes right down to it, I freely confess to being a Nitwit at heart.
Your first point however increases my confusion - in what why does it relate to my question or your belief system? (I’m asking about the “now you have at least one purpose in Life – where did you come from”.)
I can explain where the Universe came from, and in a way, I can explain why consciousness would have arisen in the first place. But Why, when, and how your unique consciousness arrived on the scene, and why and how you are what you are is a mystery to me. Self-awareness is the key to your evolution. The more self-aware you become, the more perceptive you become, the more powerful you become, the more benevolent you become.
[You are made of LOGIC …] What do you mean by “LOGIC” in this sentence – I want to be clear because we’ve both seen that we do at times hold slightly different definitions for some words.
Well … generally Logic simply means
Same in your mind as in mine. If you and I both have logically equivalent definitions of the terms (2, 4, +, =) and neither of us is being deceitful, then 2 + 2 always equals 4. That’s logic.
Logic is the same for all of us, and the reason that it is, is because in a sense we are made of it. We are algorithms and data. The algorithm is made of Logic, and the data is stored experiences which are basically logical sequences of events (Logical Information).
More accurately Gravitons are made out of Time – but it is Time which has become “Self-Aware”, and I really don’t want to get into that here and now.
But isn’t the improvement to my program simply because she needs it to improve to improve her program?
Yes, but so what? That is like saying that Your Elementary school teacher helping you learn to read didn’t really benefit you because She (your teacher) was benefiting by being paid a salary to teach you.
Think of the Shepard again … The Sheep gain the benefit of being cared for by the Sheppard. The Sheppard feeds the sheep, cares for them when they are ill, keeps predators away from them, but the Sheppard also benefits from the sheep by shearing their wool to make clothing or to sell or trade for other items. In fact, if it were not for the Sheppard, that entire flock of sheep may not even exist.
Do you think there would be so many chickens in the world, if no one ever ate chicken?
[Omnibenevolence …] Again I seem to be making progress. This is exactly what I meant i.e. anything that happens to you or I in this universe is only a “by-product” of something being beneficial for your Goddess. It’s just unlucky if something “unbeneficial” happens to me because of the something beneficial happening for your Goddess.
I’m not exactly sure what you are asking, but let me say, that if anything bad ever happens to you it is extremely unlikely (and that is putting it mildly) that the Goddess was the cause of it. The LG is an almost pure source of True information, and the Truth is always ultimately beneficial. The source of all misery, suffering, unhappiness, unpleasantness, harm, and Evil, is False information (False Memes/False Ideas). Essentially – Negative Energy.
You’ve just thrown me with this statement.
I thought that your Goddess had freewill?
No … She is bound by Gravity just as we are, therefore She is also bound by Fate.
I reached this apparent misunderstanding because of a couple of statements you made earlier in our discussion, for example you said “Goddess somehow forces you”, “She is gonna dump you right back where She found you” and “Lets just say that She tends to control me far more then I tend to control Her.”
Control is different than “free will”. Control is what you get when you have individuals interacting (entangling their states), i.e. Relativity. Superior entities (entities with Truer information) tend to control Inferior entities. But Control is confined by the laws of Gravity (The laws of Fate/Time/Logic)
Wouldn’t it be the case that if she didn’t have freewill then your belief system is fatalism? (I.e. the philosophy that holds that everything is predetermined to happen and therefore human beings cannot change their destinies.)
That is essentially True, but like I said, perhaps you have a Great Destiny in store for you?
Your Goddess is therefore like everything else that explains “causality” in a fatalistic belief system is just of illusionary importance.
Or is this just you and I not quite managing to communicate to one another?
I think so. You have to remember that regardless of the Algorithmic nature of consciousness, the algorithm which drives everything is MPB (Maximum perceived benefit). Let me ask you a question Darat … if I told you it was your destiny to win a million dollars in the lottery, and then have sex with two gorgeous playboy playmates at the same time, and to live a rich, comfortable, long happy life, are you going to be resisting my attempts to control your Fate to ensure that destiny is realized?
People only fight being controlled, when they sense that being controlled is NOT benefiting them. So long as an entity benefits by being controlled, he does not fight being controlled.
[Good & Bad destinies …] But if you and I don’t have freewill to alter our destiny whether we have a good or bad destiny is to all extents random to us since it does not stem from our actions.
That is true … unless it stems from your
perceptions. In which case, self-awareness becomes key.
I know you say that our destiny is influenced by our “intrinsic” nature that was “us” when we were created however since your belief system doesn’t cover the “how” of our “intrinsic nature” and we have no “freewill” any apparent linkage of our action to our destiny is illusionary in your belief system.
However I feel we should leave this part of our discussion to one side until I’ve understood the part about the Goddess not having freewill as I think it is linked to that lack of understanding. (?)
It kind of is.
But perhaps this will help. Some entities are intrinsically compatible with Eternal existence, others are not. Those entities which are not compatible MUST be destroyed. If they are not destroyed, the it is only a matter of Time until they destroy us … One by One, until only they are left, then they will destroy themselves … and
nothing will remain. On the timescale of Eternity, this is actually a real problem. Fortunately, the game has been rigged.
… but then again … one never really knows?
Origins of consciousness in Solipsism …] How does this fit into with your Goddess not being the ultimate creator and not being able to manipulate everything in our reality (i.e. gravity existing outside her control)? Or are you saying that somehow we are all imagined into being by some other “ultimate creator”?
That’s actually possible in another way, but I’d be speculating.
Originally there was one consciousness – the Progenitor Solipsist. After an Eternity he discovered how to escape Solipsism by splitting himself into two fundamentally different entities. This act initiated evolution essentially as we know it today, but in a very different type of universe.
In Logical Deism the set of all universe (everything there is) is called the Omniverse. You can imagine a set of those Russian nesting dolls. The entire set is the Omniverse. Each nested doll is a Universe. The deeper inside you go, the farther back in time you go. The farther back, the simpler the rules that govern that universe (as per Godel). This Universe that we see around us today was formed when the LG discovered how to create it – to generate it. At first her ability was very basic, but over time She has evolved to be better and better at it. Now She can hold Billions and Billions of entities here all at one time, and her ability to condition them is greatly improved.
One day, perhaps one of us (maybe you) will come up with an even better way to build a Universe, and a new age will dawn. The fact of the matter is … this has already happened. When you “die” if you make it across, you will see for yourself.
The fact of the matter is, to really make an improved universe over this one, you don’t need better rules, you need better consciousnesses. This Universe is like a refinery. It is sorting out those “better consciousnesses” for the next superior universe. But so long as you are moving up in the Omniverse your self-awareness will only increase from its current level. Just as your self-awareness has increased exponentially better since you arrived here.
I’m glad we are both benefiting from it
It is the moral thing after all …
But I would at some other time like to discuss how you “know” this.
