Grammatron
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2003
- Messages
- 5,444
Elio said:Number Six,
In other words, you're just a racist person.
Too bad...
Elio.
Did you attend "The Fool's school of what the word racist means?"
What was said was dumb and ignorant, but racist it's not if only for the fact that there is no French race.
Number Six
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Messages
- 5,016
Elio said:Number Six,
In other words, you're just a racist person.
Too bad...
Elio.
Elio, I didn't write that. But while you can agree or disagree with it I don't see how it can be called racist. All the people in France aren't French and all the French people don't live in France.
And also, this is a message board and the rhetoric flies hot and heavy. I read as bad or worse here about the US at least a dozen time a day.
Grammatron said:
Did you attend "The Fool's school of what the word racist means?"
What was said was dumb and ignorant, but racist it's not if only for the fact that there is no French race.
Of course there's a French Race. It's called the Tour de France.
Grammatron
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2003
- Messages
- 5,444
Nikk said:
Is it? USA won it so many times I did not realize they were still calling it French
I happen to love France at it used to be. I took three years of French in high school. I would love to visit Mont St. Michelle and Versailles. I do not hate the French people, but I am amazed that they have such vitrol towards America. France as it is, is no friend to America. And I think Americans should realize this. But, they are as they always were. If there is another war, I hope they are left occupied, as they do it so well.
Number Six
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Messages
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Nikk said:
I have to admit that that made me laugh.
Hey, the Tour de France is so influential that when Donald Trump started a bike race he named it Tour de Trump. French influence is subtly creeping all over the US.
Number six:
"She's got a point there. Putting Syria in charge of human rights is like putting Charles Manson in charge of the parole board."
Read my post again...it wasn`t about the moral authority of the UN, it was about the honesty in international politics, hypocrisy and double standards.
Denise:
"To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy."
So, if we replaced "France" with "Israel" in the above, it wouldn`t be anti-Semitic?
I wish Bush, Blair, and their supporters took some responsibility for their decisions, instead of blaming the French, Al Jazeera, everyone else!
The Germans said that the French put up a tougher fight than the Poles (no disrespect to the Poles). Blitzkrieg was a phenomenal tactic that was hard to resist (helped with finance from Prescott Bush, among others). Thankfully, Britain had the Channel to stall the nazis, and no doubt there were some Britons ready to become 'Quislings' and collaborators if the nazis had been able to invade Britain. But, there were enough Britons to resist the nazis, just like the great members of the French resistance and young men and women from the U.S. and other countries. Eurostar has just named a train after a Frenchman who helped save many British lives during the blitz, etc., by passing on intelligence gleaned from his spying on the nazis.
quote:
"A Tribute"
Worse than death, is to be forgotten...So that this never happens to those to whom we owe so much, the association "Les Fleurs de la Memoire". ( Flowers of remembrance ), came to life. It happened on December 15, 2000, in Saint Lo, a city which, after the June 6, 1944, bombing raids, was called the Capital of Ruins.
Since that day, along with our members, we have paved the way along memory's roads. These paths of memory lead to the American military cemeteries where those, swept along by the Star Spangled banner, listening only to their courage, came to offer their life, so that we could reclaim our freedom.
At the core of Les Fleurs de la Memoire, the 720 members, put aside their differences, religious beliefs, and their origins, share the same gratitude towards the GI's who repose at Colleville-sur-Mer or Saint James.
Together, on Memorial Day or individually on any other day of the year, we come to meditate, in silence, or in prayer. Then, in an affectionate gesture, as would a godparent for their godchild, allowing the heart to speak, we place flowers at the base of the headstone.
It is not uncommon to see grandparents, at times moved to tears, accompanied by their children and grand children moving along the rows on the way to find "the" grave.
Once at the gravesite, their heads filled with images.... All listen, all meditate.
Is it the sound of the breeze ?… Rather, isn't it the sound of the souls, the living memory of the dead speaking to our subconscious ?… Then the terrible sounds of combat invade the mind...those unbearable sounds of bombs which explode..the whining cry of diving planes...the agonizing cries of the suffering. All the horrors of war assault our memories
Finding the spirit of those who died for that we may live in a better world, kneeling in front of the headstone, placing these flowers, is this not a profound appeal for peace?
That is, I believe, what each person feels when coming to execute their pledge towards our association, "Les Fleurs de la Memoire". A Humble pledge always accomplished with the infallible faith and immense fraternity with those whom we honor. It is true we have so much to say to you who sleep forever in our Normandy soil. Yes, so many things, which however must be resumed in one word: "Merci." Yes, "Thank You. Always!"
Claude Lavieille
Président de l'association
Les Fleurs de la Mémoire
Nota : This text was written for the Memorial Day 2002
http://fleursdelamemoire.free.fr/static.php?op=entowers.txt&npds=1
NO ! They Have Not Been Forgotten !!
The following is a speech given by Frank W. Towers, a former veteran of the liberation of Normandy in 1944, at the dedication ceremony of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire" on 8 June 2002, at the Normandy-American Cemetery at Colleville-sur-Mer, Normandy France.
NO ! They Have Not Been Forgotten !!
Far from the beautiful shores of America, many of our fallen sons lie on foreign soil today.
Long ago in battle, the bodies of these heroes were brought down by an enemy action, and they have laid here for all of these many years.
By whose decision do they still remain on foreign soil, rather than being taken home to their families' local cemetery? Have they just been forgotten??
Such questions need a lot of soul searching, deep thought, and delving into the reasons why.
First, to relieve your mind and curiosity, the answer is a resounding "NO", they have not been forgotten!
The loss of a loved one can never be forgotten.
War is Hell on Earth! The dead bear witness to this!
Long ago when these men were killed in Normandy during WWII in Europe, comrade by comrade, they were buried in temporary graves near where they fell. Later, they were reinterred in a more permanent site, landscaped and well cared for by our United States government.
Over the next few years, families were given the option of having their loved one's returned to the United States, for reburial in their local cemetery and family plot, to facilitate frequent visits by all family members.
On the other hand, many families made their soul searching decision to have their beloved son or husband remain on foreign soil where they had fallen, along with their comrades, for the cause of Freedom and Liberty, and to be among their comrades who had also sacrificed their life for the same reason.
Here they are by the thousands. Who is ever going to think of them or care for their grave or pay them an occasional visit and tribute?
Do You Ever Think of Them?? "YES"!!
"Let Us Never Forget Them"
All of the cemeteries on foreign soil were donated in perpetuity to the government of the United States of America, for all time into the future. The American Battle Monuments Commission was given the task of beautifying each site on its own merits for size, landscaping and the general layout plan. So, here these heroes lie forever.
It is very heartwarming to know that many of these graves have been adopted by You, members of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire", a great cross section of society, young, old, male, female, and all with a common spirit of satisfaction, Love and Thanks, for the Freedom and Liberty that you experience and enjoy today.
You, the adoptive families, have not forgotten the trials and tribulations that you or your families had endured during the 4 years, 4 months and 4 days of occupation by the German Nazi and Tyrannical oppressors.
It was these many heroes who have remained behind, to become the symbol of Freedom and Liberty for the French people, and this gives them the opportunity to express their most sincere and warm Thanks and feeling of Love and appreciation to these heroes.
As one person related to me: "We were Born Again! We were given the opportunity to start out on a new life".
Another simply said: "We owe it to them - they gave their 'all' for us".
On and on it will go, with continual tribute paid to our men on many special occasions, as well as personal and private tributes paid on a daily basis.
You, as members of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire", have made a dream come true for many of the families of these fallen heroes, as well as for myself.
I wish to sincerely Thank the Board of Directors for their dedication and efforts to make "Les Fleurs de la Memoire" such a grand success in such a short time.
NO! They have not Been Forgotten!!
Thank You.
Viva la France!! Viva les Etats Unis!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy."
Incredible ignorance.
"She's got a point there. Putting Syria in charge of human rights is like putting Charles Manson in charge of the parole board."
Read my post again...it wasn`t about the moral authority of the UN, it was about the honesty in international politics, hypocrisy and double standards.
Denise:
"To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy."
So, if we replaced "France" with "Israel" in the above, it wouldn`t be anti-Semitic?
I wish Bush, Blair, and their supporters took some responsibility for their decisions, instead of blaming the French, Al Jazeera, everyone else!
The Germans said that the French put up a tougher fight than the Poles (no disrespect to the Poles). Blitzkrieg was a phenomenal tactic that was hard to resist (helped with finance from Prescott Bush, among others). Thankfully, Britain had the Channel to stall the nazis, and no doubt there were some Britons ready to become 'Quislings' and collaborators if the nazis had been able to invade Britain. But, there were enough Britons to resist the nazis, just like the great members of the French resistance and young men and women from the U.S. and other countries. Eurostar has just named a train after a Frenchman who helped save many British lives during the blitz, etc., by passing on intelligence gleaned from his spying on the nazis.
quote:
"A Tribute"
Worse than death, is to be forgotten...So that this never happens to those to whom we owe so much, the association "Les Fleurs de la Memoire". ( Flowers of remembrance ), came to life. It happened on December 15, 2000, in Saint Lo, a city which, after the June 6, 1944, bombing raids, was called the Capital of Ruins.
Since that day, along with our members, we have paved the way along memory's roads. These paths of memory lead to the American military cemeteries where those, swept along by the Star Spangled banner, listening only to their courage, came to offer their life, so that we could reclaim our freedom.
At the core of Les Fleurs de la Memoire, the 720 members, put aside their differences, religious beliefs, and their origins, share the same gratitude towards the GI's who repose at Colleville-sur-Mer or Saint James.
Together, on Memorial Day or individually on any other day of the year, we come to meditate, in silence, or in prayer. Then, in an affectionate gesture, as would a godparent for their godchild, allowing the heart to speak, we place flowers at the base of the headstone.
It is not uncommon to see grandparents, at times moved to tears, accompanied by their children and grand children moving along the rows on the way to find "the" grave.
Once at the gravesite, their heads filled with images.... All listen, all meditate.
Is it the sound of the breeze ?… Rather, isn't it the sound of the souls, the living memory of the dead speaking to our subconscious ?… Then the terrible sounds of combat invade the mind...those unbearable sounds of bombs which explode..the whining cry of diving planes...the agonizing cries of the suffering. All the horrors of war assault our memories
Finding the spirit of those who died for that we may live in a better world, kneeling in front of the headstone, placing these flowers, is this not a profound appeal for peace?
That is, I believe, what each person feels when coming to execute their pledge towards our association, "Les Fleurs de la Memoire". A Humble pledge always accomplished with the infallible faith and immense fraternity with those whom we honor. It is true we have so much to say to you who sleep forever in our Normandy soil. Yes, so many things, which however must be resumed in one word: "Merci." Yes, "Thank You. Always!"
Claude Lavieille
Président de l'association
Les Fleurs de la Mémoire
Nota : This text was written for the Memorial Day 2002
http://fleursdelamemoire.free.fr/static.php?op=entowers.txt&npds=1
NO ! They Have Not Been Forgotten !!
The following is a speech given by Frank W. Towers, a former veteran of the liberation of Normandy in 1944, at the dedication ceremony of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire" on 8 June 2002, at the Normandy-American Cemetery at Colleville-sur-Mer, Normandy France.
NO ! They Have Not Been Forgotten !!
Far from the beautiful shores of America, many of our fallen sons lie on foreign soil today.
Long ago in battle, the bodies of these heroes were brought down by an enemy action, and they have laid here for all of these many years.
By whose decision do they still remain on foreign soil, rather than being taken home to their families' local cemetery? Have they just been forgotten??
Such questions need a lot of soul searching, deep thought, and delving into the reasons why.
First, to relieve your mind and curiosity, the answer is a resounding "NO", they have not been forgotten!
The loss of a loved one can never be forgotten.
War is Hell on Earth! The dead bear witness to this!
Long ago when these men were killed in Normandy during WWII in Europe, comrade by comrade, they were buried in temporary graves near where they fell. Later, they were reinterred in a more permanent site, landscaped and well cared for by our United States government.
Over the next few years, families were given the option of having their loved one's returned to the United States, for reburial in their local cemetery and family plot, to facilitate frequent visits by all family members.
On the other hand, many families made their soul searching decision to have their beloved son or husband remain on foreign soil where they had fallen, along with their comrades, for the cause of Freedom and Liberty, and to be among their comrades who had also sacrificed their life for the same reason.
Here they are by the thousands. Who is ever going to think of them or care for their grave or pay them an occasional visit and tribute?
Do You Ever Think of Them?? "YES"!!
"Let Us Never Forget Them"
All of the cemeteries on foreign soil were donated in perpetuity to the government of the United States of America, for all time into the future. The American Battle Monuments Commission was given the task of beautifying each site on its own merits for size, landscaping and the general layout plan. So, here these heroes lie forever.
It is very heartwarming to know that many of these graves have been adopted by You, members of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire", a great cross section of society, young, old, male, female, and all with a common spirit of satisfaction, Love and Thanks, for the Freedom and Liberty that you experience and enjoy today.
You, the adoptive families, have not forgotten the trials and tribulations that you or your families had endured during the 4 years, 4 months and 4 days of occupation by the German Nazi and Tyrannical oppressors.
It was these many heroes who have remained behind, to become the symbol of Freedom and Liberty for the French people, and this gives them the opportunity to express their most sincere and warm Thanks and feeling of Love and appreciation to these heroes.
As one person related to me: "We were Born Again! We were given the opportunity to start out on a new life".
Another simply said: "We owe it to them - they gave their 'all' for us".
On and on it will go, with continual tribute paid to our men on many special occasions, as well as personal and private tributes paid on a daily basis.
You, as members of "Les Fleurs de la Memoire", have made a dream come true for many of the families of these fallen heroes, as well as for myself.
I wish to sincerely Thank the Board of Directors for their dedication and efforts to make "Les Fleurs de la Memoire" such a grand success in such a short time.
NO! They have not Been Forgotten!!
Thank You.
Viva la France!! Viva les Etats Unis!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy."
Incredible ignorance.
Number Six
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Messages
- 5,016
While the rhetoric flies on the US/France thing none of it really bothers me except for one thing. Correct the following if it's wrong but from what I understand this is what happened.
The 9/11 attaks happened. Afterwards a French writer wrote a book claiming that the whole thing happened completely differently than the media claimed and implied or said (I forget which) that it was all just a plot by the CIA to serve as a pretext for the US to use its miiltary power. From what I understand, the writer was totally and completely serious with his thesis.
Fine. France is a free country and people can write what they like (so long as they use certain government-designated French words in place of English words that are spreading like "e-mail.") But what bugs me is that the book went to #1 on the France bestseller book. That truly is a slap in the face.
The US is famous for churing out crap books by political "commentators" that spin like crazy and that go to the top of the charts but even the worst of those infinitely less inaccurate than a book that says a plane didn't even crash into the Pentagon. That book going to #1 on the charts is akin to a Holocaust denial book going to #1. It still amazes me that it did so well. Maybe I have something wrong in all this because it sounds so ridiculous on the surface.
The 9/11 attaks happened. Afterwards a French writer wrote a book claiming that the whole thing happened completely differently than the media claimed and implied or said (I forget which) that it was all just a plot by the CIA to serve as a pretext for the US to use its miiltary power. From what I understand, the writer was totally and completely serious with his thesis.
Fine. France is a free country and people can write what they like (so long as they use certain government-designated French words in place of English words that are spreading like "e-mail.") But what bugs me is that the book went to #1 on the France bestseller book. That truly is a slap in the face.
The US is famous for churing out crap books by political "commentators" that spin like crazy and that go to the top of the charts but even the worst of those infinitely less inaccurate than a book that says a plane didn't even crash into the Pentagon. That book going to #1 on the charts is akin to a Holocaust denial book going to #1. It still amazes me that it did so well. Maybe I have something wrong in all this because it sounds so ridiculous on the surface.
Denise:
"Israel is one of the foremost nations that deny human rights. My opinion again."
Well we have some common ground there...but, what you said earlier:
"The Un should no longer be respected when countries like Syria are enforcers fo human rights. Geez."
...by that reasoning, can I assume that you'd agree that nor should we respect the nation whose leaders have described US Contra terrorists in Nicaragua as 'the moral equivalent of our founding fathers', who has been found guilty by the World Court of international terrorism, and has been condemned by Amnesty International for 'Violating rights at home, turning a blind eye to abuses abroad and using pre-emptive military force where and when it chooses' and that 'has damaged justice and freedom, and made the world a more dangerous place.'
Not to mention a state that currently supports Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan, a country where 'Torture remains widespread. Judges routinely ignore torture allegations in court, victims are persecuted for speaking out about torture, and those responsible for torture enjoy almost complete impunity' (HRW)
Do the double standards worry you? In that light I`m just not undertanding your attack on France here.
"Israel is one of the foremost nations that deny human rights. My opinion again."
Well we have some common ground there...but, what you said earlier:
"The Un should no longer be respected when countries like Syria are enforcers fo human rights. Geez."
...by that reasoning, can I assume that you'd agree that nor should we respect the nation whose leaders have described US Contra terrorists in Nicaragua as 'the moral equivalent of our founding fathers', who has been found guilty by the World Court of international terrorism, and has been condemned by Amnesty International for 'Violating rights at home, turning a blind eye to abuses abroad and using pre-emptive military force where and when it chooses' and that 'has damaged justice and freedom, and made the world a more dangerous place.'
Not to mention a state that currently supports Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan, a country where 'Torture remains widespread. Judges routinely ignore torture allegations in court, victims are persecuted for speaking out about torture, and those responsible for torture enjoy almost complete impunity' (HRW)
Do the double standards worry you? In that light I`m just not undertanding your attack on France here.
Grammatron
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2003
- Messages
- 5,444
Number Six said:
I completely agree. I was upset at the same thing.
Elio said:Denise,
Right...
Thousands of people baffled of their rights, being tortured and exterminated in death camps.
Allow me to take back my apologies, Denise.
Elio.
And there is no antisemitism in France? Please. It's huge there. Wonder why? Cop to your own problems and don't blame them on others. There are outrageous things going on against jews in France. Puh lease.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Denise said:
YOU FOOL!!! RULE #1: NEVER, EVER, EVER APOLOGIZE FOR ANYTHING YOU SAY IN THE PCE&SI FORUM!!!
It's clear that you are out of your league here. You're getting knocked around like a pinball. Go back to Community where you belong!
