Fox news presents a literal strawman

[JoelKatz]

What is often overlooked in the cost of the space program is how much other good comes from it. NASA has filed over 6300 patents and given us many things that we use all the time. Cordless tools, memory foam, gel insoles, MRI, bidirectional telemetry used in pacemakers, invisible braces, scratchproof lenses, long distance telecommunications, and a bunch of other things were all offshoots of NASA research for the space program.

True, but what we don't see is all the things we would have had if not for all the resources devoted to the space program. It stands to reason that the best way to produce things people want and need is to try to do so directly. Getting them as an accidental consequence of doing something else is almost certainly much less efficient.

But it is certainly true that if you're going to try to do an accurate accounting of the costs and benefits of the space program, you do have to take these things into account. But what would all those great, talented people have been working on if not for the space program? What have we lost?

 

[marplots]

I think the Ron Paul impersonator did a much better job pretending to be Ron Paul than the Obama guy did.

 

[Joey McGee]

The libertarians are so unbelievably lame these days. It's so geeked out by this point I can't even laugh anymore, it's just painful. The worst was the Stossell video when their propaganda piece started with quotes from awkward pretty females, obviously pushed to the front of the crowd to make Libertarians look good.

Charlie Sheen's "20 Minutes with the President" was more entertaining.

 

[Darat]

.... Getting them as an accidental consequence of doing something else is almost certainly much less efficient.

...snip..

I know you only say certainly much less efficient but it could be much more efficient in that as reaching your goal you are getting something that is valued for no additional cost. I've often seen this happen in software development projects. For example we developed a wavlet compression tool for one project, once the project was completed we realised that it could be used in a lot of other projects so we used it for about the next 3 years in many different projects.

 

[JoelKatz]

I know you only say certainly much less efficient but it could be much more efficient in that as reaching your goal you are getting something that is valued for no additional cost. I've often seen this happen in software development projects. For example we developed a wavlet compression tool for one project, once the project was completed we realised that it could be used in a lot of other projects so we used it for about the next 3 years in many different projects.

Oh, absolutely. We all realize how common it is to miss unexpected costs when calculating the costs and benefits of doing things, but much less often appreciated is the fact that there are often unexpected benefits. However, my point is more about the risks when you try to credit the project with the unexpected benefits after the fact.

To use your example, the benefits were completely unexpected. Had you *not* done this project, you would never have been able to factor in this lost value when re-evaluating the decision. So if you go back to see whether or not making this software was a good decision, you will bring up these unexpected benefits. But surely you had to forego *something* to do this project. What would the unexpected benefits of that thing have been? You cannot possibly know.

It is dangerous to re-analyze a decision with additional knowledge of what happened in the chosen course of action by luck when you have no comparable knowledge of what would have happened had alternative courses been chosen.

 

[Lurker]

You know, I am surprised that this story is not getting more traction. I mean, what reputable news agency would ever consider hiring a lookalike to engage in a fake debate? Even with everyone knowing it is just ridiculous.

Why is FoxNews not getting eviscerated for this sort of idiocy? I can imagine what they would say if NBC did something similar with Bush.

 

[Juniversal]

The libertarians are so unbelievably lame these days. It's so geeked out by this point I can't even laugh anymore, it's just painful. The worst was the Stossell video when their propaganda piece started with quotes from awkward pretty females, obviously pushed to the front of the crowd to make Libertarians look good.

Charlie Sheen's "20 Minutes with the President" was more entertaining.

You mean if I become a libertarian I get hot babes?

 

[Joey McGee]

You mean if I become a libertarian I get hot babes? [qimg]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5306/naughty17hs.gif[/qimg]

You'll have to join the atheist deviants with no morals if you want to have any fun.

"Where Are The Female Libertarians?" Apparently this is a gigantic, soul-crushing problem for them. If you just google female libertarian you will see the agony these poor fellers are in, it's really a shame. I knew before I looked though, just from seeing that intro with the two girls, I'm Canadian I've never even seen a Libertarian but the desperation crushed through the screen.

Personally, I'm with the hookers, booze and drugs party. Whoever seems least likely to screw up access to those things gets my vote. Upon retrospect that's actually technically true.

 

[BenBurch]

You mean if I become a libertarian I get hot babes? [qimg]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5306/naughty17hs.gif[/qimg]

If you get hot babes, it is more likely to be in spite of being a Libertarian.

 

[Joey McGee]

I think "Libertarian Hotties" blog would be pissed

http://libhotties.com/gallery.htm

seriously you can click on the picture you like to get their myspace or whatever.

Some of them, not so much and one lady is shown brandishing a giant broadsword, I've learned that's a bad sign. Still, you have to give them points for effort!

 

[mhaze]

....Second, how are these examples evidence that private industry does a better job than government? Has government even tried to offer public rides to space? If not, how can you compare the government's efforts to the private efforts?.....

Yes, Russia has been selling rides up to the Station on Soyuz for some years.

,,,,,,During the 50s / 60s, I don't recall any private industry even trying to get people into space. So, how can he possibly say that private industry would have done a better job?

Irrelevant what you recall. There is a long history of private space efforts. What you likely remember is a massive PR campaign by the US government....which is only now, with the end of the Shuttle, coming to an end.