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Fox news presents a literal strawman

Did I really just hear that blithering twit from Texas assert that private enterprise could have gotten us into space?

Sersly? Dude!
 
lol... Cute faux debate. I'll admit the Obama clone got his mannerisms down pat.
 
I like how Paul claims that private industry could have done a better job with innovation than what the government has done without providing any evidence. Am I mistaken, or is this begging the question?
 
You want to know WHY they did this?

Because some rather large fraction of those watching will either think that this was really Obama making a fool of himself, or with time the memory that it wasn't Obama will fade and the negative impression will be established.

It's a pretty slimy bit of propaganda.
 
Did I really just hear that blithering twit from Texas assert that private enterprise could have gotten us into space?

Sersly? Dude!
Yes, seriously. Perhaps you've heard of a little thing called the X Prize, the winners of which (Paul Allen and Burt Rutan) are working together with Richard Branson to form Virgin Galactic? Reserve your seat now. $200k to go up in space.

Or put another way, that wasn't a prediction, it was an observation.
 
I like how Paul claims that private industry could have done a better job with innovation than what the government has done without providing any evidence. Am I mistaken, or is this begging the question?
Paul Allen. Burt Rutan. Scaled Composites. Richard Branson. Virgin Galactic. White Knight. Enterprise.

Get out more.
 
Oh, in case you were wondering, I generally think Ron Paul and his spawn are all idiots and I am in no way a Paul supporter. I was just pointing out that in this one instance, Paul might have been correct.
 
I'm not defending Fox News in any way shape or form, or disagreeing with the point of the OP, but this is still a figurative, not literal, strawman.

It's pretty egregious, but I think the people around here who make up quotes to put in their opponents' mouths are committing no less egregious strawman arguments*. They're basically conducting both sides of a debate on their own and ignoring their actual opponents' arguments. One would think a humongous news media corporation would do better than bozos on a computer forum. . . .

*If you want to see examples, do a forum search on "I've said it before and I'll say it again" and you'll see several examples that I've pointed out.
 
Yes, seriously. Perhaps you've heard of a little thing called the X Prize, the winners of which (Paul Allen and Burt Rutan) are working together with Richard Branson to form Virgin Galactic? Reserve your seat now. $200k to go up in space.

Or put another way, that wasn't a prediction, it was an observation.

Basicaly a slightly larger version of the X-15 which broke the 100Km barrier back in the 60s.
 
or with time the memory that it wasn't Obama will fade and the negative impression will be established.

*ding*ding*ding* We have a winnah! Six months from now people will be saying "Remember that time Obama said..."

Dorian Gray said:
Yes, seriously. Perhaps you've heard of a little thing called the X Prize,

I think he was referring to the space race of the 50s and 60s. If private enterprise could have done it quicker and cheaper than the evul gubmint, then we didn't it?

Steve S
 
Oh, in case you were wondering, I generally think Ron Paul and his spawn are all idiots and I am in no way a Paul supporter. I was just pointing out that in this one instance, Paul might have been correct.
I have seen stopped clocks with a better record.

Your argument ignores the fact that Allen and Rutan have piggy-backed on the shoulders of government-financed research.
 
I like how Paul claims that private industry could have done a better job with innovation than what the government has done without providing any evidence. Am I mistaken, or is this begging the question?


It may well be able to but the empirical evidence from history is that we (as societies) don't want to pay the price.
 
You want to know WHY they did this?

Because some rather large fraction of those watching will either think that this was really Obama making a fool of himself, or with time the memory that it wasn't Obama will fade and the negative impression will be established.

It's a pretty slimy bit of propaganda.

Which is why 'Obama' went to so much trouble to have his mannerisms and speech patterns down pat. It was totally unecessary for the purposes of the 'debate' but helps people 'remember' it the way the creators want them to.
And his mannerisms and speech patterns were perhaps the best Obama impression I have seen.
 
It may well be able to but the empirical evidence from history is that we (as societies) don't want to pay the price.

Agreed.

Paul Allen. Burt Rutan. Scaled Composites. Richard Branson. Virgin Galactic. White Knight. Enterprise.

First of all, I thought the part I was commenting on was specifically referring to the space race of the mid 20th century.

Second, how are these examples evidence that private industry does a better job than government? Has government even tried to offer public rides to space? If not, how can you compare the government's efforts to the private efforts? This is exactly my problem with Paul's comment. During the 50s / 60s, I don't recall any private industry even trying to get people into space. So, how can he possibly say that private industry would have done a better job?

Get out more.

Reported for attacking the arguer.
 
First of all, I thought the part I was commenting on was specifically referring to the space race of the mid 20th century.

Second, how are these examples evidence that private industry does a better job than government? Has government even tried to offer public rides to space? If not, how can you compare the government's efforts to the private efforts? This is exactly my problem with Paul's comment. During the 50s / 60s, I don't recall any private industry even trying to get people into space. So, how can he possibly say that private industry would have done a better job?

The US approach to the space race, and the resulting innovation by the private sector, is interesting.

In essence, the government encouraged private innovation in aerospace technology, by underwriting the R&D costs and thereby greatly reducing the risk involved in developing new technologies.

The government did this by setting challenging goals in the field of aerospace, and then inviting bids from private contractors to meet those goals. The contractors that won the bids got substantial R&D financing to innovate new technologies and techniques in aerospace.

Today, Boeing (for example) has a profitable commercial space business, founded solidly on technologies that it acquired, the R&D for which was originally funded by the US government.

So it's an interesting scenario. The vision and funding were provided by the government: The know-how and innovation were provided by the private sector.

Military technology is developed in a very similar manner.

This is why I'm glad to see NASA transitioning some roles to the private sector. Ideally, NASA should only be involved in moving payloads (human or otherwise) from earth to orbit so long as doing so is a challenging goal requiring substantial R&D effort and business risk.

If getting humans and supplies to the ISS isn't cutting-edge, then NASA should transition it to the private sector and shift their budget to the Next Big Thing (whatever we end up deciding that should be).
 
I think Heinlein had it right in "The Man Who Sold the Moon."

If private enterprise went to the moon, there would be a giant Coke sign on the moon right now.
 
Yes, seriously. Perhaps you've heard of a little thing called the X Prize, the winners of which (Paul Allen and Burt Rutan) are working together with Richard Branson to form Virgin Galactic? Reserve your seat now. $200k to go up in space.

Or put another way, that wasn't a prediction, it was an observation.

Not a good comparison at all. They had the mountains of literature produced by NASA to use. This includes information on materials science, electronics, fuel, atmosphere, radiation, as well as physiological analysis of being subjected to high Gs, low Gs, and isolation.

There is no comparing what these people have recently done with what would have been needed for them to do without NASA having paved the way.
 

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