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For PixyMista – The Problem With Metaphysics

Solitaire

Neoclinus blanchardi
Joined
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Can we consider metaphysics part of philosophy? I found this paragraph in a letter written by Hermon von Helmholtz in 1902 that suggests that it is not.

“In my opinion nothing has been so pernicious to philosophy as its repeated confusion with metaphysics. The latter has played much the same part in relation to the former as that which astrology has been borne to astronomy. It has been metaphysics that turned the attention of the great majority of scientific amateurs to philosophy, and attracted troops of proselytes and disciples, who no doubt in many cases have wrought more harm than the bitterest opponents could have effected. They were led on by the delusive hope of obtaining insight, with little expenditure of time or trouble, into the deepest order of things and the nature of the human spirit, into the past and the future of the world – in which lay the main interest that incited so many to take up the study of philosophy, just as the hope of prognostications for the future formerly lead to the fostering of astronomy. What philosophy has so far been able to teach us, or with continued study of the facts involved, may one day be able to teach us, is of the utmost importance to the scientific thinker, who must know the exact capabilities of the instrument with which he is to work, that is, the human intellect. But as regards the satisfaction of this dilettante curiosity, or the still more frequent egoism of the individual, these serve and abstract studies will continue to yield only small and reluctant response: just as the mathematical mechanics of the planetary system and the calculations of perturbations are far less popular, despite their admirable systematic completeness, than was the astrological superstition of old days.”
 
I would consider it a necessary part of philosophy that ties into epistemology. Some might argue that it is an open field for bat-s$*t crazy ideas (like magic and supernatural beings), but I wouldn't say that fact is necessarily restricted to metaphysics. Although I will attest to metaphysics being the most open branch to terrible ideas, I believe all the other branches sport their fair share as well.
 
I can't recall where I read it, but the source said that "metaphysics" had originally been intended as philosophy to discuss those "deep" (and essentially unanswerable) questions.

However, it got contaminated with what we would call "woo".

A friend of mine advised that he was "into" metaphysics, by which he meant silly nonsense about the Egyptians, reincarnation, and all sorts of similar things.
I still like the little definition you see now and then..."Metaphysics is like a man without a light going into a dark basement to search for a black cat..That isn't there."
 
If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

-- David Hume

I like David Hume.
 
I would consider it a necessary part of philosophy that ties into epistemology. Some might argue that it is an open field for bat-s$*t crazy ideas (like magic and supernatural beings), but I wouldn't say that fact is necessarily restricted to metaphysics. Although I will attest to metaphysics being the most open branch to terrible ideas, I believe all the other branches sport their fair share as well.


Since people actually experience "supernatural beings" and other mystical things, calling them crazy ideas is wrong. Call them crazy experiences. Crazy experiences which metaphysics attempts to deal with in a systematic way.

Of course, the skeptic paradigm would call such experiences 'hallucinations', but even that is engaging in metaphysics. Its just that the word 'hallucination' smuggles the metaphysics in under the radar.
 
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Hallucinations are not metaphysics. They can be triggered with electrical or chemical stimulation of the brain. Hallucinations are physics.
 
There are no crazy ideas, only crazy people.

cute......


So how many believe in dark matter, black holes that swallow up galaxies or what about space bending?

The ones that crack me up are the 'electrical brain' ideas. That brains are wired and like a binary system, just and/or gates of open and closed circuits.
That one cracks me up because then magnets and 2 tesla magnetic fields as found in an MRI would be like kryptonite to anything with a brain.


I guess per your claim, then having an imagination is just for the nuts or is it that ideas are not what makes a person crazy, but accepting them without an objective approach is just crazy?
 
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Hallucinations are not metaphysics. They can be triggered with electrical or chemical stimulation of the brain. Hallucinations are physics.


Don't forget meditation.

Mystic: "During meditation I met God."

Skeptic: "You were just hallucinating."
 
Hallucinations are not metaphysics. They can be triggered with electrical or chemical stimulation of the brain. Hallucinations are physics.



Kind of like how you accept the "electrical or chemical" renditions as to the brains oppertation because the physics says that's how it works.



nothing hot about that OT idea, as it will equilibrate to nothing soon enough!
 
Don't forget meditation.

Mystic: "During meditation I met God."

Skeptic: "You were just hallucinating."

A teacher mediates understanding; if the knowledge is not evolving, then more hallucinations for everybody.


The buddha touched the earth under the tree during meditation and became enlightened, does anyone know what it meant?

i believe because he realized he is just OF nature and the answers to any question are found in understanding it (ie.... nature (Mother) is God (our creator))


does that philosophy make sense?

That we are learning what we are!
 
Don't forget meditation.

Mystic: "During meditation I met God."

Skeptic: "You were just hallucinating."
You can also meet God under the God Helmet.

Like I said. Brain stimulation. Physics. The subjective experience of physcial brain events.
 
Kind of like how you accept the "electrical or chemical" renditions as to the brains oppertation because the physics says that's how it works.



nothing hot about that OT idea, as it will equilibrate to nothing soon enough!
I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate.
 
You can also meet God under the God Helmet.


Sure, I'm familiar with it.

Like I said. Brain stimulation. Physics. The subjective experience of physical brain events.


So when a mystic decides to meditate, it is the brain deciding to stimulate itself directly?
 
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Since people actually experience "supernatural beings" and other mystical things, calling them crazy ideas is wrong. Call them crazy experiences. Crazy experiences which metaphysics attempts to deal with in a systematic way...

I have often thought that a trained mind is not prone to the same "crazy" experiences you mention. Not that they don't have some experience that could be mapped similarly, but that the experience is identified differently.

So, while two people may wonder in awe at the beauty of a night sky full of stars, one will appreciate the vastness of the visible universe and the other will feel the touch of divinity. I have thought about how this might work ever since reading Albert Hoffman's notes about his LSD experiences and contrasting those with, say, Timothy Leary's.

I would like to know how much of this is innate and how much is shaped, or can be.
 
Sure, I'm familiar with it.




So when a mystic decides to meditate, it the brain deciding to stimulate itself?
Yes. Kind of like when a mystic decides to hit himself in the head with a hammer, it's the brain deciding to give itself a concussion.
 
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Yes. Kind of like when a mystic decides to hit himself in the head with a hammer, it's the brain deciding to give itself a concussion.


What is the brain using when it says to itself, "I will now meditate."
 
What is the brain using when it says to itself, "I will now meditate."
Does trolling for dualism usually work for you? Or, are you so confident in my brilliance that you expect me to solve the hard problem of consciousness in a pithy internet post?

Here's a question for you:

Can the mystic say to himself "I will now meditate" if his brain is removed?
 

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