Flight 93

[tsig]

Big letters make a bigger failure.
The NTSB does accidents, the police do crime. The FBI is lead on Flt 93 crashing due to your terrorists buddies.

The NTSB worked and supplied products for the FBI.

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm

Flight path study, you will not understand it so why try? http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight%20_Path_%20Study_UA93.pdf

FDR report, you have no skills to understand this either so why try?
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/UAL93FDR.pdf

ATC transcript, you don't understand flying or ATC so give up.
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/ATC _Report_UA93.pdf

The NTSB does not do an investigation on CRIME. Stop making up lies to impress your friends, your ideas are dirt dumb on 911.

But if you could do rational research you would find NTSB reports which I found in 10 seconds, and produce a summary in a post in a minute. Why can't you do research?

They were big, orange letters. If they were ordinary black letters you might have a case but nobody can argue with big orange letters.

Give it up Beechnut, he's cornered you with colors.

 

[aggle-rithm]

agglerithm,

Your concession lacks grace. I do wish you'd reconsider and address the issue of accountability for horrible failure to determine what happened in re alleged FL93. I suspect that if you want to, you can add greatly to that effort.

My hope is that before this thread rolls over to pg. 15, at least one of you will address the need for accountability for this failure to invesigate properly.

You almost had me convinced that you actually believe this crap, but it seems apparent you're just trying to get a rise out of people.

 

[BigAl]

You stop the stupid cherry-picking. You are being needlessly dense here. I have said, specifically, you have to go by what witnesses say and give more weight to what they actually say and to what they say early on.

Adults know to incorporate new information as it becomes known and to discard erroneous information as needed.

Truthers keep what supports their claims and discards that which shows their claims to the stupidity it is.

 

[BigAl]

The evidence is ALL, ever last element of it, tainted in some way. And, that is not surprising. The basic thrust of the common myth of 9/11 defies reason and is not a viable story. It is suspect as to its very nature.

So, that is the starting point: I expect a plane crash story to sound credible rather than incredible; believable rather than unbelievable.

An estimated 7,000 people worked on the Flight 93 crash, either on the site or in the forensic analysis afterwords. If the fraud was as complete as you believe, some, maybe all of them would know it and would have to be working from scripts, most of them customized to the role each person played.

Many of these scripts would have to be distributed prior to 9/11 with the role player having no idea why he was being asked to do something illegal, to fake a criminal investigation.


In 9 years, none of these scripts have come to light. None of these people have admitted any fraud.

In 9 years, some hundreds of these people have died for one reason or other. Any one of them could have made a death-bed statement to the pres and blown the lid off the biggest crime of all time.

 

[beachnut]

if you have BIG delusions be sure to use BIG orange letters

They were big, orange letters. If they were ordinary black letters you might have a case but nobody can argue with big orange letters.

Give it up Beechnut, he's cornered you with colors.

Drat, and I was going to post some more evidence but I forgot big, orange letters posted by people with insane delusions beat reality based evidence. my bad

 

[I Ratant]

Drat, and I was going to post some more evidence but I forgot big, orange letters posted by people with insane delusions beat reality based evidence. my bad

.
Those multi-colored messages are typical of the less-well wrapped.
One of the locals presses his personal battles against the world with such.

 

[sylvan8798]

My sincere apologies to the moderators for any rule violation, but never has the term "pompous ass" seemed so appropriate.

 

[lapman]

I know I'm late on this but the stupid hurts too much to ignore.

beachnut,

OK, your post at least makes an attempt at a reason based comparison. I, however, will offer one that I think is more apt and more directly comparable for the reasons set out below.

Lie #1. You have shown that facts and reason are foreign concepts to you. But I digress.

In my view, a more apt comparison to FL93 would be the tragic loss, via disintegration, of the Space Shuttle Columbia occurring, as you know, in modern era of color photography and the 24hr. news cycle and not occurring during the era of b&w pictures.

Here, for reference is Columbia as it was being destroyed:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/th_cc446da666f00ac48e3f8aa9896b4bb6.jpg[/qimg]

1--Several posters have claimed FL93 would have crashed at over 600mph, but do not point to either witnesses or crash inferno photos showing any such thing. But, in comparison, Columbia disintegrated at over 12,000mph and thus crashed at a speed that dwarfs that of what is claimed for FL93.

Lie#2. The Columbia did not crash directly into the ground. Therefore it is not even in the same ballpark for comparison.

2--Columbia resulted in photographic evidence of the crash itself that was clear and unambiguous, not to mention the normal collection and display of the remnants.

The Columbia was an accident. It's wreckage was spread across several states. Flt93 was a crime. Crimes are handled differently. Since flt93 was deliberatly flown into the ground, there is no need to rebuild the aircraft. You will probably spew the myth that the NTSB rebuilds all aircraft.

Here is one remnant, being a part of stabilizer, something that seems to survive in almost all plane crashes, with the notable exception of all 4 alleged 9/11 crashes where not one tail section survived:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/th_news-020104u.jpg[/qimg]

Lie#3. Each crash is unique. You cannot use a cookie-cutter statement like that and think you can get away with it. The high-speed crashes of the airliners into building is unprecedented. Therefore your claim is baseless.

3--While one can claim that a wallet and passport of the hijacker could survive a crash where nothing else did, and where it was found by someone who wasn't searching for it, and where it was the first thing found. But, while one can make that claim, it can also be challenged as being "too good to be true."

Lie#4. There was quite a bit that survived the crash. Like 95% of the aircraft.

4--In fact, the passport claim is better suited, in my view, for assessment of the nature of psyops than it is as evidence of a jetliner crash. To me, the wonder is how few people even question the tremendous good luck that a wallet and passport of the hijacker would survive, when nothing else did and be the first thing found, no less. But, as I have said, proof of 9/11 isn't required; rather, there exists a need, couched in the phenomenon of "denial" that requires uncritical support of anything and everything said that supports the 9/11 myth.

Continuation of Lie #4. Since more survived than just a wallet and passport, your point 4 is just patently false.

 

[sylvan8798]

But, according to Univ of Colorado, that didn't stop one of the first responders who wasn't even looking for debris to make the most important finding of all; namely, the hijacker's wallet and passport:

"... the first significant piece of evidence was found the first night by a Pennsylvania State Police Trooper assigned to security, who found the wallet and passport of one of the hijackers (Morrison, 2002)."
...
...
...
4--In fact, the passport claim is better suited, in my view, for assessment of the nature of psyops than it is as evidence of a jetliner crash. To me, the wonder is how few people even question the tremendous good luck that a wallet and passport of the hijacker would survive, when nothing else did and be the first thing found, no less. But, as I have said, proof of 9/11 isn't required; rather, there exists a need, couched in the phenomenon of "denial" that requires uncritical support of anything and everything said that supports the 9/11 myth.

So it would be your studied opinion that the Pennsylvania police, coroner, etc. were notified that a plane had crashed in a certain location, and they went there on the morning of 9/11, started looking around the "site" for evidence of a crash and didn't actually find ANYTHING until that night? Maybe just some burned grass?

Have you spoken with any of them personally about this? If not, why not?

 

[TJM]

There is no jetliner debris and there are no remains visible. Moreover, the lack of remains and of debris is confirmed by the first of the first responders. <Pointless blather snipped>

Just in case you missed it, there were two posts which I asked for a response to.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I'm sure you'd want to comment on the remarkable similarities between the two crash sites. You wouldn't have just simply ignored it, that would be somewhat disingenuous of you. Wouldn't it.

 

[jammonius]

good day posters,

As I had indicated on pg. 14, THE JIG IS UP. Some of you are still dancing around. Stop. The issue is no longer whether this evidence is better than that evidence; this picture clearer than that one; this witness statement more accurate than that one; or this is what the witness really meant versus this is not what the witness meant.

The time for all such banter has past.

The FBI has been shown to have completely botched, perhaps intentionally, but nonetheless very definitely, the investigation such that no claim as to what happened in Shanksville PA on 9/11 can be proven.

I think that is the way the FBI wanted it because I do not think the FBI is inherently incapable of conducting a proper investigation. But, that is beside the point and really involves a possible next step in the debate. The thread could, legitimately, debate whether the FBI intentionally sabotaged the Flight 93 investigation. Or, whether, indeed, the FBI was actually involved or whether the FBI was infiltrated or whatever.

The point that has been made and conceded is that the alleged plane wreckage has been intentionally lost, destoryed and otherwise mishandled. That is point one.

It has also been established that the last entity stated to have had the plane wreckage no longer has it. That is point two.

It has also been shown the FBI set up an investigatroy process that could not have made and did not make key findings about what happened because of the way in which the investigatory grid patterns were set up. The FBI overruled the local authorities who were, apparently, quite miffed that the FBI was thwarting the investigation.

The NTSB was called off of the invetigation to such a degree that to this day, the time of the alleged crash of Flight 93 is simply not known. The data that survived or was allowed to remain is too inexact to establish the time of the crash.

Based upon those conceded facts, it is quite clear that what happened in re alleged FL 93 has never been firmly established and never will be because evidence was either not collected or was destroyed. Or, in all probability, never existed in the first place, which is the best interpretation of the data, IMHO.

If posters here do NOT want to deal with the issue of accountability for this egregious and firmly proven state of affairs then say so. However, merely dancing around talking about what little evidence you can otherwise point to is, well, pointless.

So, posters, last time I will ask:

Does anyone here, anyone at all have a desire to discuss steps that could be taken and/or ideas for seeking accountability for the egregious failure in the investigation of what happened in Shanksville PA on 9/11/01?

 

[240-185]

Tell us how this could be faked. With proof, with evidence.

(dammit, dead link)

 

[DGM]

So, posters, last time I will ask:

Promise?

Does anyone here, anyone at all have a desire to discuss steps that could be taken and/or ideas for seeking accountability for the egregious failure in the investigation of what happened in Shanksville PA on 9/11/01?

Been done. All you need to do is review the evidence without dismissing (without logical reason) the parts that disagree with your opinion.

Face it. That's all you have, no evidence, just your opinion of what things should have been like.

 

[BigAl]

never mind

 

[dtugg]

I love how the Judy Wood fanboy is trying to lecture rational people. Hilarious!

 

[BigAl]

good day posters,

As I had indicated on pg. 14, THE JIG IS UP. Some of you are still dancing around. Stop. The issue is no longer whether this evidence is better than that evidence; this picture clearer than that one; this witness statement more accurate than that one; or this is what the witness really meant versus this is not what the witness meant.

How did body parts from all the people that boarded Flight 93 in Newark (as identified by DNA) get to Shanksville, 120 minutes later?

An estimated 7,000 people worked on the Flight 93 crash, either on the site or in the forensic analysis afterwords. If the fraud was as complete as you believe, some, maybe all of them would know it and would have to be working from scripts, most of them customized to the role each person played.

Many of these scripts would have to be distributed prior to 9/11 with the role player having no idea why he was being asked to do something illegal, to fake a criminal investigation.

In 9 years, none of these scripts have come to light. None of these people have admitted any fraud.

In 9 years, some hundreds of these people have died for one reason or other. Any one of them could have made a death-bed statement to the pres and blown the lid off the biggest crime of all time

 

[jammonius]

Tell us how this could be faked. With proof, with evidence.

(dammit, dead link)

240,

Great post, excellent point. Now for accountability, perhaps?


thanks

 

[BigAl]

240,

Great post, excellent point. Now for accountability, perhaps?


thanks

Before accountability comes determination about who to hold accountable. For a start, 19 Arab Islamists killed 3,000 Americans. They have met their god. We haven't been able to capture bin Laden.

How did body parts from all the people that boarded Flight 93 (as shown on the manifest) in Newark (as identified by DNA) get to Shanksville, 120 minutes later?

 

[aggle-rithm]

Before accountability comes determination about who to hold accountable. For a start, 19 Arab Islamists killed 3,000 Americans. They have met their god. We haven't been able to capture bin Laden.

How did body parts from all the people that boarded Flight 93 (as shown on the manifest) in Newark (as identified by DNA) get to Shanksville, 120 minutes later?

Haven't you heard?! The time for all such banter has PAST!!! It's time for...um....something...let me think...

Oh, yes. It's time to GIVE JAMMONIUS MORE ATTENTION!!!!

That is the crucial issue in today's world.

 

[DGM]

Haven't you heard?! The time for all such banter has PAST!!! It's time for...um....something...let me think...

Oh, yes. It's time to GIVE JAMMONIUS MORE ATTENTION!!!!

That is the crucial issue in today's world.

Hey! A handful of people in the world don't believe a plane crashed in Shanksville. The US government needs to appease these people (or they will be sad).