Flight 93

[beachnut]

Incredulous troll has never heard of a fax header. Why am I not surprised.

Poor guy never saw a 600 mph aircraft impact and can't see the thousands of pieces in a photo from far away. Physics is good, who failed the 911 truthers' education? Sad to see so many 911 truthers who can type so much tripe are mentally unable to grasp 911, they learned to type, but failed to learn to think.

 

[jammonius]

If he had in his hands a certified, verified, notarized and authenticated flight manifest all we would hear is how good the fake was thereby proving it was a fake.

tsig,

I'm going to here ask AW to post up the kind of fallacy you've used. I think it has something to do with "strawman" where you've constructed a hypothetical out of whole cloth and then given your own answer to your own construct.

Your post has nothing whatever to do with anything I have posted and is not based on reason.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Jammonius is just dodging, my challenge for him is to produce the evidence or he can leave this thread entirely.

 

[jammonius]

The ugly part of jammonius's crap claims and frivolous demands, at least for me is that I had a work mate die on Flight 93. He made one of the phone calls. The wife and kids haven't heard from him since 9/11.

His name was Ed Felt. R.I.P.

I wonder where jammonius thinks he went to. To the extent that the wife knows about the "Truth Movement" claims about planes, it makes her sick.

jammonius, care to respond?

Greetings Big Al,

Let me start by assuming you might forward this to Edward Felt's family and by asking you to forward it to them, even if you weren't planning on doing so.

Based on that assumption, I here express deep sympathy for the Felt family and heart felt acknowledgment of the loss, the grief and the tragedy of the loss of Edward Felt.

I can only say this, and say it plainly: I do not disrespect the loss of Edward Felt or of anyone else who died as a result of what happened on 9/11/01. I am one who questions the common explanation of what happened on 9/11, but I do not do so out of disrespect for anyone who suffered a loss related to 9/11. Of course, we all suffered on a certain level, but that has no comparison whatever to those who suffered personally.

Now, based on the overwhelming emotional burden of 9/11, I will stop here, Big Al.

Please show this to the Felt family and ask them if it would be alright with them for me to respond further to your post without upsetting them. You have here entered into a private area where one has to tread lightly. I will have no further comment unless and until you post up that the Felt family has indicated that will have no objection to my responding further to your post.

Thanks in advance for your consideration and cooperation in this sensitive matter.

 

[beachnut]

Jammonius is just dodging, my challenge for him is to produce the evidence or he can leave this thread entirely.

Poor guy found all the 911 truth junk he likes and and posts it not thinking about the fact he has no skill in physics and does not understand why a plane can bury itself in the ground and eject parts for hundreds of feet.

He post the photo from far away and can't see the tiny aircraft parts from the 600 mph impact and has not clue that E=mv². Must of dropped out of high school or skipped science and math.

Doubt he read the OP, Opening Post!

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Poor guy found all the 911 truth junk he likes and and posts it not thinking about the fact he has no skill in physics and does not understand why a plane can bury itself in the ground and eject parts for hundreds of feet.

He post the photo from far away and can't see the tiny aircraft parts from the 600 mph impact and has not clue that E=mv². Must of dropped out of high school or skipped science and math.

Doubt he read the OP, Opening Post!

Yeah, I just love how he thinks that my statement is "errornous" when I live 20 miles North of Shanksville. I wonder where he lives & how far he lives from Shanksville.

Jammonius is the end result of poor education. I think he believes that the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights doesn't exist or that the people onboard Flight 93 ever existed at all.

I went down to the crash site a week after it happened. I was about 300 yards away (they wouldn't anyone get near the site) & looked through the binoculars to see the County coroner & the FBI looking for parts of people & plane. There's no way Jammonius can refute my statement due to the fact that he has no evidence to counter it.

 

[BigAl]

Greetings Big Al,

Let me start by assuming you might forward this to Edward Felt's family and by asking you to forward it to them, even if you weren't planning on doing so.

WHy?

I wouldn't insult the family with your stupidity.

If I posted the text from a response, you could and, based on your record would dismiss it because it doesn't have an embossed stamp or something.

 

[carlitos]

Stupidity
Incredulity
Logical Fallacies

jammonius' arguments are not convincing. Perhaps if he could tell me what happened on 9/11/2001 rather than all of this back-and-forth, I would take him more seriously.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Stupidity
Incredulity
Logical Fallacies

jammonius' arguments are not convincing. Perhaps if he could tell me what happened on 9/11/2001 rather than all of this back-and-forth, I would take him more seriously.

Jammonius is kind of like Alex Jones, loudmouthed & delusional!

 

[tsig]

tsig,

I'm going to here ask AW to post up the kind of fallacy you've used. I think it has something to do with "strawman" where you've constructed a hypothetical out of whole cloth and then given your own answer to your own construct.

Your post has nothing whatever to do with anything I have posted and is not based on reason.

So if i gave that document to you you would admit you were wrong?

 

[jammonius]

WHy?

I wouldn't insult the family with your stupidity.

If I posted the text from a response, you could and, based on your record would dismiss it because it doesn't have an embossed stamp or something.

Well, it looks like AW has upped and left us with the result being the thread has returned to its norm of little or no substance being posted.

Big Al, you had your chance and now, yet again, you've demonstrated your piety when it comes to 9/11 victims is fake.

This is the second time in as many threads that you've pulled a fast one over on us with fake sympathy for victims.

In the other thread you posted up this:

"I live near one of the medical facilities dedicated to 9/11 first responders.
You are welcome and encouraged to stand at the entry to this facility and ask these heroes any questions you want. If it should become necessary, I'm sure the docs will patch you up, not that I wish violence on anyone.


The Mount Sinai WTC Program Clinical Center on Staten Island
Richmond University Medical Center
690 Castleton Ave
Staten Island, NY 11801"

As I did in this one, I was polite and respectful and gave you every chance to show you had a real concern for victims and would follow through. You didn't then and you haven't done so now.

I politely told you that the WTC Program that you expressed so much concern for was having funding problems, and would CLOSE DOWN as of June.

You live so close to it and didn't know that? You asked for a link to the article about Dr. Moline and I provided it to you.

http://www.onearth.org/node/1719

Why didn't you independently post up the fact that the WTC Program was in danger of imminent closing if you are so concerned?

Why have you waited for me to do that for you.

Posters, please read the article on the WTC Program. It is about to close as of June, for lack of funding.

Unless there are those among you who are Tea baggers and who, therefore, think that "YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR PROBLEM" to quote a Tea bagger sign, I am sure that all of you pious supporters of 9/11 victims will do all you can to see to it that the WTC Program, located right there next door to your boy, Big Al, will not close.

Big Al, this is your last chance to pass on my message to the Felt family and let them know I'd like to speak with them.

 

[jammonius]

Yeah, I just love how he thinks that my statement is "errornous" when I live 20 miles North of Shanksville. I wonder where he lives & how far he lives from Shanksville.

Jammonius is the end result of poor education. I think he believes that the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights doesn't exist or that the people onboard Flight 93 ever existed at all.

I went down to the crash site a week after it happened. I was about 300 yards away (they wouldn't anyone get near the site) & looked through the binoculars to see the County coroner & the FBI looking for parts of people & plane. There's no way Jammonius can refute my statement due to the fact that he has no evidence to counter it.

chewy,

I respect that you live nearby to Shanksville. All I'm saying is that while you live nearby, you were not a witness to anything. And, to the extent that you reported what you heard, your exact statement is inconsistent with a jetliner crash. You said you heard a jet and then you heard nothing else. You did not hear a crash. Of course, if you live 20 miles away, and in the PA mountains somewhere, then it may be unlikely you could have heard a crash.

Whatever, the fact is you are not a witness.

Going to the site a week later and being kept back 300 yards obviously meant you didn't see anything that you could swear to either. You live nearby, but you are not a witness.

By the way, do you have the ability to show this post to Wallace Miller? Please let him know that I would like to speak with him.

Here is what he is said to have said at the time:

"Wallace Miller, the coroner of Somerset County, is one of the first people to arrive at the Flight 93 crash scene. However, he is surprised by the absence of human remains there. He later says, “If you didn’t know, you would have thought no one was on the plane. You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.” [Longman, 2002, pp. 217]

I am not making this up, chewy, that is what he said.

The statements by and about Wallace Miller continue with this:


"The only recognizable body part he sees is a piece of spinal cord with five vertebrae attached. He will later tell Australian newspaper The Age, “I’ve seen a lot of highway fatalities where there’s fragmentation. The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven’t, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop.” [Age (Melbourne), 9/9/2002] Dave Fox, a former firefighter, also arrives early at the crash scene, but sees just three chunks of human tissue. He says, “You knew there were people there, but you couldn’t see them.” [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 9/11/2002] Yet, in the following weeks, hundreds of searchers are able to find about 1,500 scorched human tissue samples, weighing less than 600 pounds—approximately eight percent of the total body mass on Flight 93. Months after 9/11, more remains are found in a secluded cabin, several hundred yards from the crash site. [Washington Post, 5/12/2002]"

Once again, chewy, a meeting with coroner Miller would be a good thing I think. Is he still coroner, close on to 10 years later? Have you already met with him?

 

[carlitos]

Awesome. Incredulous truther also doesn't understand 'simile.'

Any chance to post this video.



ETA - I am starting to be reminded of Simon Shack, who didn't believe that President Obama existed because he hadn't seen him in person. Is there some type of condition where one starts to believe that nothing, anywhere is real? (I'm being serious, in case it's not clear)

 

[beachnut]

Awesome. Incredulous truther also doesn't understand 'simile.'

Any chance to post this video.



ETA - I am starting to be reminded of Simon Shack, who didn't believe that President Obama existed because he hadn't seen him in person. Is there some type of condition where one starts to believe that nothing, anywhere is real? (I'm being serious, in case it's not clear)

Our new wonder-kin is gullible, he will be upset with himself and those who lies he is spreading without thinking, if he can climb out of the pit of ignorance and lies known as 911 truth.

 

[aggle-rithm]

ETA - I am starting to be reminded of Simon Shack, who didn't believe that President Obama existed because he hadn't seen him in person. Is there some type of condition where one starts to believe that nothing, anywhere is real? (I'm being serious, in case it's not clear)

Solipsism. It's more of a philosophy than a condition.

 

[aggle-rithm]

"Wallace Miller, the coroner of Somerset County, is one of the first people to arrive at the Flight 93 crash scene. However, he is surprised by the absence of human remains there. He later says, “If you didn’t know, you would have thought no one was on the plane. You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.” [Longman, 2002, pp. 217]

I am not making this up, chewy, that is what he said.

What would you expect to find left of bodies that had hit the ground at 500 mph, were ground up in the wreckage of a disintegrating airliner, and burned?

Really, do you have such a hard time understanding this?

 

[A W Smith]

Jammonious, What you failed to understand in my post re:the trial, Was that the prosecution used the data extracted from the manifests I posted as evidence in other documents used during that trial.

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200018.html

Notice how the seat assignments in the flash presentation. match that of the faxed manifests I had shown you in my post. And as far as moving the goalposts. you did not read the full text of the heading I had posted.

Which is why i posted it

Moving The Goalposts (Raising The Bar, Argument By Demanding Impossible Perfection):


Have I made this clear to you now?

There is no wax seal. or handmark of the emperor, or video of the court clerk hand carrying the document from the airliner port of departure to the court. There is however a preponderance of evidence which clearly shows proof that flight 93 crashed into the earth at high speed in shanksville. The families of those on board are unanimous in their satisfaction of the evidence. there are no whistle blowers who contest otherwise. You are here to argue just for the sake of arguing. I do not believe you are mentally ill enough to actually believe what you spew. Your only skill is pick away with your incredulity at meaningless points in a weak and obvious attempt to cast the most insignificant morsel of doubt. The surviving passport, the flatness of the windows in the piece of surviving fuselage, Their resemblance to a horse trailer window. The authentication of a handful of documents that are not freely available to you. When shown trial exhibits you hand wave it away because he plead guilty. Why would any prosecution risk presenting so much evidence that in your jaundiced eyes could simply be discarded as faked? Time to open your eyes jammonious, You will not make any headway here. You have convinced no one. You present the same crap that's been presented here for years. And no one. not one of the first responderes at shanksville today think anything but flight 93 crashed at Shanksville.

Take it up with them

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1

 

[A W Smith]

a meeting with coroner Miller would be a good thing I think. Is he still coroner, close on to 10 years later? Have you already met with him?

Already done, Good luck changing simile to conspiracy, Dumbenick tried to put words in his mouth.

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

.

 

[jammonius]

What would you expect to find left of bodies that had hit the ground at 500 mph, were ground up in the wreckage of a disintegrating airliner, and burned?

Really, do you have such a hard time understanding this?

The above is unworthy of discussion based on reason. How many times must one remind folks here that you cannot presume what hasn't been proven? You cannot use presumed facts about what happens in a jetliner crash to prove a jetliner crash occurred.

You cannot say there's no evidence of a jetliner crash, therefore the jetliner must have vaporized and burned away all of the evidence of a jetliner crash. Doing so is an unworthy trick of reasoning.

Look, you have an advantage over me. Were I to post up something as illogical as what you did, you would likely, if this thread is any guide, promptly post up epithets, put downs and pronouncements about my sanity. I cannot do that in turn. First of all, it isn't worth it and I don't need that kind of emotional gratification.

The second and more important factor is also emotional. I have said several times that the emotional attachment to the official 9/11 myth is very strong and there exists an emotional need to trust that official version. That is because if the official version fails, then Americans will be forced to consider the unthinkable; namely, that elements that we do not understand did this to us for reasons that are equally unthinkable; namely, reasons involving false pretenses and horrificly pretextual justification to attack innocent peoples and countries. If that were true, then, what does that make us? Don't answer. But that is precisely why the emotional attachment to the official version of events is so strong and why it is well nigh impossible to engage in a reasoned challenge to the events.

Here's the deal, posters. Unless you folks are willing to set aside the emotional attachment to the official version of events, hadn't we ought to just call it a day?

Emotion trumps reason, unless there is agreement and/or a requirement to set emotion aside.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Hey Jam, Why did you abandon the Judy Woods threads?